To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

No life isn’t simple, but the concept of human biology really is. Women are women, adult human females, and men are men, adult human males. There are no subsets. One can’t ever be the other. Even those with DSD are one or the other.

No amount of feelings, cosplaying, costume, hormones, body modifications, surgery etc etc etc will ever change this simple concept.

Life really does work like that. The sooner you realise this you and the confused people you are arguing for, will be more comfortable.

Human biology is simple!

Dear lord it’s not. Why do you think this? Why do you think it takes 10-14 years to train to be a doctor after 18 yrs of school!

It is simple humans are a species with only 2 sex types and noone can change their sex so yes it is very simply true that anyone born male remains male for their entire life and are still male when they die regardless of any cross sex hormones or surgeries that they may or may not have had

but the concept of human biology

The concept of human biology? That’s very interesting.
What do you mean by “concept”?
” Concepts” are imagined by people, so yes they often are simple. They are also imagined..

Readers Note:

The studies linked up thread that supposedly support differences in brains did not show with strong evidencd that male person with a transgender identity has a different brain to a male person without a gender identity taking the same chemicals and having similar interests and behaviours. They were weak correlations that did barely adequate controls.

For instance 25% of one group was homosexual and they didn’t have the details of the sexual orientation of the ‘control’ group published. Sexual orientation has also been hypothesised to create brain differences.

That particular data set also showed that the male people with gender identities showed a range completely within the range of the general male set. This is to be expected. They are male.

They don't spend those years learning what a woman is though do they? That's pretty much covered by lesson 1.

Not of that training is needed to cover the fact that humans are binary sexed and all humans are male or female and can't change that fact. we all already know that.

“people are just asking for tolerance”

I would consider that very much part of socialisation.

Ok. Human biology. Period.

Sex is binary and immutable.

You keep trying to muddy the waters here. Not with any actual facts I note, but vague suggestions.

What do you hope to achieve with this? Do you think people can change sex? Do you think that there is in fact a third sex? Do enlighten us.

But but but clownfish

Are we really back there again?

No one gives a shit about your socialisation people are just asking for tolerance which is supposed to be a value societies take pride in.

Societies do not 'take pride in' unlimited and unquestioning tolerance. Or if they do, they shouldn't. We should only tolerate things that are good for society as a whole.

Tolerance towards men who want to be/think they are women, at the expense of actual women, is not that.

Oh dear god 🫠

What do you hope to achieve with this?

Improved understanding of the complexity of sex and gender and less discrimination and dismissal of people who are different in ways that don’t fit the simplistic narrative that you dogmatically believe in.

They can chop anything off, they're still male and should go to a male prison. A lack of penis won't stop a violent male from assaulting a woman.

There is no complexity about sex. You're male or you're female. Gender is a social construct and has as much meaning as religion.

I think what you said was very accurate actually.
The (imaginary) “concept” of human sex is very simple - we’ve heard it a lot on this thread- men are men, women are women, no such thing as trans etc.

The reality of sex is not the least bit simple at all; we are still investigating and discovering fascinating aspects of it.

There is very little complexity in sex. Every human who has ever lived has been either male or female and remained that way throughout their lives.

You're inventing complexity to suit your agenda. And that thing we "dogmatically believe in" is reality. The earth is round, no matter how many times you claim it to be flat.

Gender is just personality. Sex is what matters.

Sex is binary and immutable. Do you want to explain what you think is 'simplistic' about that?

Yes. The logic is completely lacking in the preceding posts and is being pointed out by posters who are certainly not just the ‘six’ pp’s have tried to denigrate.

To be comparable to person with a uterus, a person some people want us to call transwomen perhaps should be called either a person with a penis or a person who once had a penis. If that is what they want, then ok, I am willing to try that for a while with headlines and all through media. Both factual. Let’s see how that goes down.

Less than one percent of the population is trans and less than five percent of them have used any form of medical treatment to become more like the gender they identify as. So I am assuming that 99.9999% of the trans women are still intact in the downstairs region.

I think this is a really difficult one to answer. Either way has issues. Just look at the recent Olympics stuff though.

I don't think the main risk is a penis though. People who were born male will always have more strength, regardless of what bits they have.

Identity not personality. But is that just semantics?

To be honest I don’t even know why we still segregate jails. Imagine if we segregated prisoners by race or religion. I think it might actually make more sense to categorise and separate prisoners by how much of a threat they are to society and each other rather than just sex.

It's not in any sense difficult to answer. Male offenders belong in male prisons. TW are male, eg they belong in male prisons.
Very simple 🤷‍♀️