To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

That is coercion and compulsion in anyone's terms.

Therefore anyone who is born a male will always be a male so I will always refer to that man as a man. Likewise with women. They are born female and I will correctly refer to them as women. It's important to be clear and not allow a dangerous ideology to distort fact and biological reality.

This. All the manipulative appeals to my female socialisation don't wash with me. I choose not to gaslight myself and others that these male people have anything to do with women and girls. They do not.

No trans women are not women. They are trans women. I said that in my post.

A trans woman is a real thing, separate from biological women. Just because you don't accept it doesn't mean they don't exist.

Unless you stop having a problem with being called a person with a uterus which is a factually correct statement you can't blithely state there is no issue with calling a trans woman a man simply because it is factually correct.

God this is so over the top.

No one gives a shit about your socialisation people are just asking for tolerance which is supposed to be a value societies take pride in.

No one is gaslighting you that men have anything to do with women and girls. Trans women and biological women are different, everybody knows that.

So over the top women have had to take it all the way to the Supreme Court. That's how hard we have been gaslit.

A trans woman is a real thing, separate from biological women.

Yes, separate because they aren't women in any way at all. Women are female. Male people don't qualify. HTH.

So over the top women have had to take it all the way to the Supreme Court. That's how hard we have been gaslit.

Exactly.

I find it interesting how the pp airily handwaved away @ArabellaScott comment that the BBC referred to a male murderer as simply a woman. It's her ideology that is responsible for that.

No. They're still stronger than most women and can do damage in other ways. A third space would be appropriate.

ETA This is particularly the case when incarceration is involved.

@Cheesytoastie data please? But really, once a transgender woman takes hormones or has surgery, they aren't actually the same as a biological male anymore anyway they are something slightly different. Their brain is literally different when scanned with an MRI so you cannot deny trans women are different from men on a biological level.
I was under the impression that neuroscientists say there’s no distinction between the male and female brain so not sure what results trans women could have that show them to be different in a less male way?

But really, once a transgender woman takes hormones or has surgery, they aren't actually the same as a biological male anymore anyway they are something slightly different. Their brain is literally different when scanned with an MRI so you cannot deny trans women are different from men on a biological level.

Even if this were true, they're not women. They never have been and they never will be female.

Men are not the default human and women are not 'slightly different msles'.

You might consider them to not actually be the same as other biological males anymore bur I don't see anything that means they are actually women instead.

We are not a catch all for everyone who isn't male enough including your 'slightly different' ones.

Because they are men

Not all adult females have a uterus. It doesn’t mean that they aren’t my women. But all trans women are men. It’s in the name.

Where are you learning this nonsense it doesn't matter what surgeries or drugs that a man takes he will always be a man. In exactly the same way that a man with testicular or penile cancer is still a man after has surgery and drugs to treat it.
Calling a man a man is in no way as dehumanising as referring to women as people with uteruses or mothers as gestational parents as well you know, calling a man a man however he identifies is correctly seeing hin and refusing to pander to his delusions, your examples remove the connection between women, their bodies and their humanity which makes it easier to remove our rights and our ability to defend ourselves as well.
The problem is that you are trying to force women to referr to men in a way that harms women, denighs reality and removes all our language whilst using the dehumanising language of these men to say we are doing the same to them by refusing to use their made up terms. That slight of hand may have worked a few years ago but not now. Women have had enough and won't play your linguistic games anymore, transwomen are men end of

Noone is denighing that transwomen exist we are saying that they are still men no matter what they claim or how they claim to identify nor what surgeries or drugs that they take they are and always will be men. It's that simple.

How is one to know that they’ve taken hormones or had surgery? Or even have a GRC? The majority do not.

What about my bad faith actors question? Or rape victims or victims of male violence?

What if a woman doesn’t have a uterus?

Shouldn’t we just call a trans woman (who has had surgery) man without a penis then?

People know they exist. What you can’t seem to answer is how to tell the ones with a genuine gender dysphoria who go through surgery (which is hardly anyone btw), to the ones who just present in a way which is based on female sexist stereotypes, or the ones would go to any means necessary to harm women by going into spaces not for them.

There’s no difference in all three in that they are men. Body modifications or not.

Women need to see it, and call it, for their privacy, dignity and safety. Put your energies into males - as a sex class - not being so problematic for women and you might get an easier time.

Until then, they are men. No matter what their inner identity feels are. And their brains don’t change either.

You're suggesting 'transwomen' are a third sex/category? It's not accurate, but it could.potentially work as a solution if that was what the trans activists were pushing for. Third spaces would work just fine.

But that's not what is being pushed.

Many transwomen insist they are literally and biologically and legally women. Juno Dawson just got IPSO to uphold a complaint because the Spectator described him as a man who 'claimed to be a woman'.

The line that is being pushed is 'transwomen are women'. Many attempts made to force this in law and to stop people from saying that transwomen are men. That's the problem.

Bottom surgery??
Wtf? If you aren't 6 years old, please don't insult our intelligence. Use the adult words

A man on female hormones or with horrific surgeries, will still be nothing other than a "slightly different" man. It's 2024, we don't have to conform these days. A man is a man is a man and the word "woman" already has a meaning.

No one gives a shit about your socialisation people are just asking for tolerance which is supposed to be a value societies take pride in.

You're not asking for tolerance, you're demanding submission to your beliefs. Transness is a belief, there's no measure of it. Saying everyone must call males who want it a subset of women isn't asking for tolerance it's making a demand that other say stuff that isn't true. It's the equivalent of Jewish people making everyone else write god as g_d, or Muslims insisting you say insha'Allah when you talk about the future. I don't believe in your religion and I won't be saying the words of your religion.

No we don't have to be "tolerant" of a delusion. They are men. I will call them men. I won't refer to men as any subset of women.

It's that simple

Whenever you are saying things like this- you ought to reflect.
Life is not simple. Human biology is not simple. Human diversity is not simple. Human society is not simple. The problem is that you want it to be simple because it would be easier for you to understand and that would make you more comfortable. But that’s not how life works - it just isn’t.

Yea transwomen are seperate to biological women, in that they are men. Everyone does know that, you are correct

Human biology is simple! Either you have the type of body formed around the production of small gametes or the type of body formed around the production of large gametes. Even of your body never produces gametes, or you make modifications to it with drugs or surgery, human biology is that simple. There are 2 sexes and you're one or the other

<Awaits people with dsds being dragged into the argument to prop up the wants of some males.