To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

What's incredible is the way when anyone posts anything other complete and vehement denial of any transgender peoples existence or experience the mob (as @Lostcat called them quite accurately) descend and quick fire aggressive posts demanding explanations or just straight up calling the poster a terrible person who doesn't give a shit about women's rights and tells them they believe lots of other awful things too that they never said.

It happens every single time on these threads, and it's always the same attack mob too. The same 5 or 6 posters engaging in the exact same behaviour on every single gender thread until people just stop replying because it's not worth their sanity. And after 17 pages of this, even open minded people are thinking that they are wrong for even being open minded in the first place.

These attacking posters will claim they aren't attacking anyone just engaging in healthy debate to "expose the truth" but the fact that every single poster who disagrees with them on any of the threads they are on, after a couple of posts say they feel attacked and then stop engaging really speaks volumes about the aggressive nature of these posters.

You think you are in the right for prioritising men's desires over women's safety and dignity.

Its quite extraordinary to the rest of us, but it takes all sorts I guess 😵‍💫

Have you been attacked? Or merely asked to support claims you make with evidence so we can understand where your information is coming from?

I mean, I have just spent time reading the evidence you posted to support a point that you made and pointed out that it doesn't really support your point at all.

Do you consider that me attacking you?

oops that should be

Would you be upset because you feel your friends would be attacked if they were put into a vulnerable male prison section and you feel they would be safer in the female section or upset that they were not treated as being female?

Lol, and you accuse me of a self righteous rant...

You object to being asked to explain why you think women should be locked up with men? You complain that people are responding too quickly for you? You call it a "mob" but at the same time try to belittle it as "the same five or six posters"?

the fact that every single poster who disagrees with them on any of the threads they are on, after a couple of posts say they feel attacked and then stop engaging really speaks volumes about the aggressive nature of these posters.

No, it just speaks volumes about your intellectual dishonesty, wish to silence people who consistently point out the Blackwall Tunnel sized holes in your arguments, and your desire to obfuscate the truth that you know as well as we do.

By the way, do you realise how many cases of your harmful and horrible ideology are currently in court? You'd better get used to being "attacked" over the "truth", because the sunlight is on it and it's all coming out now.

Neither really. They probably be safe in a vulnerable men’s wing. I don’t expect all parts of society to treat them as a woman. I’d be upset that they’d not have a community of women around them, which is how they and the community around them have happily lived for decades now. I’d be upset for their loss. In posting this, I am thinking only in the context of my friend, not society as a whole.

I don’t mind that people here disagree or can’t accept my view, I’m certain none have experienced the same friendship I have.

There you go again! Telling me what I think! You are wrong.

Do you think women should be locked up with men who want to be validated as women?

Whether you acknowledge it or not, every post you make reveals this to be your view

Ok. Thanks. I do understand what you are saying, and I understand that you also are not expecting female prisoners to be forceably forced to be that community you feel your friend’s would benefit from.

complete and vehement denial of any transgender peoples existence

This old chestnut again. Where has anyone denied transpeople exist? People not believing in your religion doesn't mean you don't exist.

This one is always busted out when they have nothing else to say

This study also found differences in transgender and cisgender brains.

Nevertheless, even though findings are not immediately comparable, all existing structural MRI classifier studies—as well as a recent resting-state functional MRI classifier study [38]—seem to support the notion of a “shift” away from the biological sex towards the gender identity in transgender people.

It was also specifically carried out on participants that has not undergone any hormone therapy yet so the results cannot be explained away as the effects of hormones.

The observed shift away from a male-typical brain anatomy towards a female-typical one in people who identify as transgender women suggests a possible underlying neuroanatomical correlate for a female gender identity. That is, all transgender women included in this study were confirmed to be genetic males who had not undergone any gender-affirming hormone therapy. Thus, these transgender women have been subject to the influence of androgens and grown up (at least up until a certain age) in an environment that presumably treated them as males. The combination of male genes, androgens, and (to some degree) male upbringing should ordinarily be expected to result in a male-typical brain [39,40,41,42,43,44,45], making a female-typical brain anatomy extremely unlikely. Yet, the brain anatomy in the current sample of transgender women is shifted towards their gender identity

So, what is it again that you feel makes a person truly transgender vs not transgender at all? Taking hormones to make their brains shrink? Because that then puts your other claims about "It is not transphobic to point out that men who are clearly exploiting self ID laws by only pretending to be transgender for the duration of their prison sentence, are not genuinely transgender." in significant doubt too.

In fact, if a male person is taking hormones to exploit the laws as you describe, they are exactly the same in brain as all other male people taking the treatment.

No it doesn't, because the the men falsely claiming to be transgender to exploit laws do not take hormones, they declare themselves transgender women after being convicted, then continue living their lives as men after they are released. They are clearly not making any effort to transition, obtaining a GRC or taking hormones, because they are clearly not transgender, they just pluck it out of the air post conviction for an easier life, because the poor legislation we have allows them to do that. All of this together makes it clear they are not transgender individual, they are liars. A person who is genuinely transgender will be doing things like having a GRC, taking hormones and will have transitioned socially, or if they are not fully transitioned yet, they will have at least mentioned it to someone before being convicted, not just plucked it from the air. It is blindingly obvious to anyone not trying to be deliberately obtuse that there is a clear difference between these two groups of people. And I do not believe for a minute that any transgender person would find it transphobic that people point out the first group are liars that make them look bad and are not transgender individuals.

Not at all. I can simultaneously support the rights of fellow women, but feel sadness for a friend. Fortunately my friends are law abiding and respectful citizens!

No. But I wouldn't passive aggressively call trans women men who want to be validated as women either.

In your opinion.

Great point.

Ridiculous that gender theory groups together things that it can't define, with no designated shared traits that make it distinct, but can't accept the clear, observable, definable nature of sex.

Isn't it.

It just feels as though we’ve reached a place where views are so polarised.

People are either like those on this thread who think that regardless of individual circumstance all Trans people should be treated and categorised as the same…

Or like the TRAs they think that anyone claiming to be a different sex should have that validated by society and to do anything less is transphobic.

Why do you think clear, honest and accurate terms are passive aggressive? In a discussion that usually boils down to TRAs saying that TWAW, with no further reasoning for this argument by assertion, it's important to be very clear who everybody is and what their motivations are.

If you agree women shouldn't be locked up with TW because TW aren't women - which means they are men - then why do you object to it being said?

No. But I wouldn't passive aggressively call trans women men who want to be validated as women either.

Good for you, have a cookie 🤷‍♀️

Sex is polarised. All humans are male or female.

Either a space is single sex or it isn't. It's one of those things where you can't really compromise because it's binary.

All trans people are male or female so in a single sex space, which will be single sex for reasons of safety and fairness, they will be treated like any other person of that sex. It is nothing to do with being trans. It's simply to do with being male or female.

Not at all. I can simultaneously support the rights of fellow women, but feel sadness for a friend. Fortunately my friends are law abiding and respectful citizens!

Yes, that's fair enough.

In my group of friends and colleagues, the former position came about as a direct result of the latter.

People are either like those on this thread who think that regardless of individual circumstance all Trans people should be treated and categorised as the same…

Their motivations are irrelevant to me, I just want males to stay out of female spaces. The end.