To think that if a man has had bottom surgery they should be put in a woman’s prison?

[Bex5490]

Genuinely interested in this and not trying to goad just want to understand.

When people talk of the threat of a man in women’s spaces, I assume the danger is because of their penis.

So if that’s gone then should they be categorised as a woman?

I’m kind of of the opinion that if you’re willing to put that much effort in (as in penis removal) regardless of your chromosomes, I’m happy for you to be called a woman…is this wrong?

I treat my post op friends as women, I call them women. But I accept other people and the authorities won’t. I’m allowed to feel sad for them about that on a personal level, because I care for them and we have brilliant friendships.

"A 'true' transgender person who has fully transitioned and had surgery" still has a body of a male person and grew up navigating the world around them dealing with how they dealt with their male body and how society treated them with a male body.

They are still male. Even when they are treated as if they have been perceived as female, their reaction to the situation is only ever as a male who has the belief they are female and may have made body modifications. They cannot ever react as a female person would react.

I caught the wrong option but I'm in agreement with you.

N/M

That depends on which country you're in.

OP a penisless man us still a man. Why would you put any men in a women's prison? I don't understand why you would even ask the question.

Can I ask why? I don't understand what is so awful about women having female only spaces. Why are men allowed them but women aren't? Why is someone always trying to find a reason to add a male to a female space?

But intellectually you do understand that they are still men, right?

What do you count as full surgical transition? Removal of a penis and fake tits doesn't change someone's sex. A woman isn't just a hole and a pair of tits, and doing some surgery doesn't change a person.

I also really disagree with encouraging people to go through major surgery that's going to come with risk of complications, risk of lifelong infertility etc. I think you do people a real disservice by pretending they can become the opposite sex by removing a couple of body parts.

So you'd put transmen in a mens prison?

But your scenario actively causes distress to the female people who can accurately identify this person's sex.

If even just one female person in that prison correctly identified that person's sex, is she considered acceptable collateral damage to support what has been now presented by transgender academics themselves to be a philosophical belief?

apparently so NPC, apparently so...

He is still a man. Would you think a man who had lost his penis etc some other way e.g. in an accident, could now be classified as a woman? I doubt most men would agree to that one! After all, having FGM happen to a girl does not make her any less a girl, and a hysterectomy does not unwoman a woman.
So, no, a man with bottom surgery should not be in a woman's prison. He should be in a special unit of the male estate. He's a man.

A man is a man is a man is a man.

Chopping his dick off doesn't change what he is. Biology doesn't lie. A simple blood test should determine who goes where.

Does it matter whether she is supported or not?

Can you articulate how it is different?

Or the Dutch man who tried to legally change his age because he wanted to continue to work after passing retirement age and tried to point out that if a male person can change sex on a legal identification document accepted by the government, why couldn't he? Or those people who identify as being babies when they are not.

What is different about those identities?

My thought, too. Whenever he had the surgery and whatever he has done, he is a man.

No. There's research that shows male castration doesn't have any impact on offending behaviour. Except in so far as they wouldn't be able to rape with a penis, but could still sexually assault a victim.

Yes, OP: it's every kind of wrong!

95% of them (or whatever the very high percentage of non surgical transpeople are is) - no, absolutely not.

On the very unlikely offchance that someone who has had the years of counselling and living in society as a woman required to have surgery and is still living in that way and then committed a prison worthy crime then yes, I would.

There's an easy way to avoid being sent to a men's prison, and that's not to commit a crime.

It's not that easy to commit crimes serious enough to result in a prison sentence, especially when we don't have enough spaces.

So - easy solution. Keep out of trouble. I suspect that only violent and sexual offenders will go to prison in future and it's really not that hard not to hit or sexually assault someone.

So it would become a mixed sex prison, and it would be officially asserted that a woman is a castrated man.

Why would you not put them in a segregated wing of a men's prison?

The reason you feel gutted though is because your friends have gender dysphoria, which obviously if you believe you are born in the wrong body is upsetting

Unfortunately people have indulged in their dysphoria for a long time, and so the reality becomes difficult to cope with. Which is obviously why the usual treatment for dysphoria is not to actively encourage dillusions. Because the reality is that they aren't women and nothing they do can ever make them a woman. You feel gutted for them because you realise they would have to acknowledge the reality.

Hmmm
I would like to know why this bottom surgery person is in prison. Can’t answer without knowing why they are incarcerated. And if that’s before or after transition. I think it matters.

Again, I agree. And surgery doesn't get done on a whim. I think it's a last resort response to a debilitating mental health problem.
But yes, I would call outer cosmetic surgery to look lije a female body a full transition.

I have a friend who has had SRS. I'm going to call her 'she' because I've only ever known her as a woman, so saying 'he' sounds weird, though I know 'she' is a 'he' and nothing can change that.

She is very slightly built, only a bit taller than me (I'm 5ft 4) and I've no doubt at all if we were ever to get into a fight she'd be toast! She passes....probably because she is so slight and she had the SRS in her late teens. Id known her for a couple of years and didn't even get a slight inkling that she was trans. (Interestingly she's starting to look more masculine as she ages, but I don't know if that's just because I know now that I see it? Anyway....)

Despite all that I still think if she broke the law she should go to a male prison. However I think those who have had SRS should possibly be segregated in the male prison - if she was thrown into main pop she would be in a serious amount of danger, so segregated for her own safety. Saying that, I remember watching a Louis Theroux doc about American prisons and amongst the massive knuckleheads was a tiny, meek young pretty lad who probably gets raped on a daily basis....I'm not sure how UK prisons work and if that lad would've been segregated here or not, but if not I don't see why passing TIMs should get a pass either? Where do we draw the line?

In all honesty though, I don't really care where they put them - build a trans prison if you must - but leave women alone. I'd much prefer if SRS and GRC wasn't a thing tbh - we should never have started on the road of being complicit in lies, we've created this problem.

Penis removal doesn't categorise a man as a woman, no.

Men who have their penis removed, for whatever reason, should be kept safe. I agree , everyone should be kept safe in prison.

But men who had their penis removed should not be placed in a women's prison, because they are not women.

And no, the risk is not removed.