I know his secret…. Thread 3

[Waffletots]

Starting another thread because the last one is full.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5226374-i-know-his-secret-but-how-do-i-play-this?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5226809-i-know-his-secret-thread-2?page=1

Thank you so much everyone for your messages, I appreciate them so much and you have truly helped me this past crazy few days to know I have so many people supporting me.
I’ve seen a solicitor this afternoon who has given me some good advice regarding finances and the legalities when it comes to our jointly owned home, a lot to get my head around but I feel a lot more informed now!
I’ve missed two calls from my husband since I last updated, I’m worried he’s going to come to the house to try and speak to me but hoping he may think my brother is still here and not bother!

1. I would NEVER spread "dangerous untruths" - don't be so aggressive (we can disagree agreeably, even when you're wrong).
2. I volunteered as an adviser for a national advice charity for 10 years and worked with NCDV and local (pro bono) solicitors when supporting women suffering domestic abuse and I can tell you, neither NCDV or our local solicitors would proceed with an application for an occupation order unless the woman or her children had been the victim of actual violence (because, in the practical application of the law, "significant harm" IS regarded as physical violence).

Sorry everyone my last was posted on wrong thread! Have asked for it to be removed

Have you ever actually had a case with a literally newborn baby and an estranged husband? Would it not be worth an application?

I’m not a family lawyer but as a human being I’d say it absolutely wouldn’t be.

An Occupation Order is a really really draconian order. The threshold for the court applying it is therefore rightly very high. The OP is extremely unlikely to succeed but just making the application would antagonise her ex, mean that there is no change of resolving any financial issues or issues relating to the children amicably and frankly would cause a heap of drama and upset which she does not need whilst dealing with a newborn and all the grief and trauma she already has on her plate.

There is zero upside here and masses of downside. It’s a mad idea.

@Waffletots no helpful advice to offer but hoping that you are being thoroughly looked after by your amazing sounding parents and brother and have your new addition snuggled up too. xx

Only if you were confident of securing the order because, although there's no court fee for the application, most applicants would want the support of a lawyer or someone else qualified in the area to help them present their case (with evidence, of course) and this incurs expense. Our advice charity used the services of NCDV or a local pro-bono solicitor to do that, except they wouldn't make an application unless physical violence was involved (it was always the first question they asked me) because they didn't have the time to waste on applications they knew, from their extensive experience, wouldn't succeed. I've dealt with many cases of coercive control (long before a law was passed against it) - some truly appalling, heart-breaking cases that were nothing short of emotional torture - but I couldn't get anyone to make an OO application for the client unless they (or their children) had been a victim of actual violence. Courts are generally reluctant to make occupation orders and they are only meant to occur in exceptional circumstances so, as passionately as I felt about protecting people from all sorts of abuse, I had to accept that a court wouldn't keep someone out of their home unless they'd physically attacked one of their family members.

Sorry, by "family members" I mean family members who actually share their home.

I’m a lawyer with almost twenty years’ experience in this exact area. I’m sure you mean well but what you’re saying is simply not correct.

While I agree with those saying an Occupation Order is not an option in the OP’s case at present, it is demonstrably untrue to say it’s only available where there has been violent behaviour.

And in my 10 years of volunteering, I was NEVER able to get NCDV or a pro bono solicitor to apply for an Occupation Order for a client where they or their children hadn't been subjected to physical violence by the person they were trying to exclude from the home (and God knows I tried, despite my supervisor's benign smiles every time I indignantly said "they must be able to get an OO for this!" - right before I made that phone call, only to be disappointed again).

Then you’ve had a run of bad luck or unsympathetic judges. Unless those cases were in the Supreme Court that doesn’t overturn Grubb v Grubb.

I think this rather pointless debate is detailing the OP’s thread so I’m not going to engage further.

You've completely missed my point - even though I've made it more than once - the cases I've been involved with never made it to a judge because NCDV and the pro bono solicitors I consulted wouldn't even make an OO application unless physical violence was perpetrated.
It is a pointless debate, particularly given that OP's circumstances don't even remotely come close to meeting the threshold criteria for granting such an order.

That's nonsense.

All this silly arguing legalities on Waffles thread.
She's intelligent enough to work this shit out herself.
Butt out

I hope you are doing ok Waffles x

I was just checking to see if Waffletots had posted and this thread has gone mad! Weird, uhelpful and/or bickering. Bloody hell, as if OP hasn’t got enough in her plate. She is far more dignified and emotionally intelligent than some posters on here.

Waffletots, I hope all is going well for you and your family. Your husband is an idiot and you are doing brilliantly (and it’s okay not to feel you are at times to). Most on here are supportive and wish you well. Ignore the other morons.

This

Threads like these always descend into ridiculous tangeantial arguments and then people wonder why OP’s don’t return…

I agree.

But, you know, given OP's situation if I were her and wanted further support I'd change names and start a new thread. She either is about to or has given birth and although it's unlikely that her stbx has discovered this thread, if he has she doesn't need him seeing here that she's had the baby and deciding to 'steamroll' over her wellbeing by showing up uninvited.

Yes, he should meet his new baby and see his other child, but it needs to be managed delicately and carefully by OP and her family

How are you op?

Hi everyone, just a quick update!
Baby is here safely, I won’t say when they were born for obvious reasons or many details. Apart from thankfully it was (very!) quick and I had my mum for support (sadly so quick my sister in law didn’t make it!) but arrived not long after, she was very shocked to see me with a baby on my chest!
My husband has been informed by my family, nothing from him yet in way of asking to see either of our children just the usual “woe is me” messages, no actual explanation or apology but I now know to expect nothing more.
I worried when I had the baby I would feel weak and want our “family unit” back… but looking at my two treasures, I know I can get through anything and we all deserve more, I will never, ever go back.
Thanks so much for all the support, I will post again as and when I can x

Congratulations!

Massive congratulations @Waffletots ! 🥳🎊

Congratulations!

Congratulations @Waffletots, lovely news ❤️💐 xx

Excellent news, congratulations

Congratulations!