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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Mounjaro offending close "friends"

623 replies

Hope78 · 10/12/2024 12:04

I have bitten the bullet and started using Mounjaro. I pay for it privately through a reputable private clinic , and in a nutshell its been incredible.

Long story as short as poss.... I'm a well built 5ft7 woman who has been anything from 10st to 13.7st over years , ideal weight 11st happy and feel good, have gone into perimenopause , started HRT and basically CANNOT shift stubborn 2st. I told my GP my plans and he agreed as BMI verging on obese (13st4) .....decision was 6 months in making with a LOT of research before starting it ....anyway ....

I have lost my first half stone ( in 10 days ) and with close friends at the weekend told them i was on the injection and how great i feel ( not just food noise but ADHD symptoms better too ) my friends were so happy for me bar one who could not hide her disgust. This person has a stunning figure, always been a petite size 8, always attracted a lot of male attention, and has been known to be quite fattest over the years to anyone chubby. She basically said it was cheating, said i would be fatter long term and i know that behind my back is slagging me off ..
I've always been confident despite my different weights but i did get a lot of compliments especially from other husbands of how well i looked , and it seemed to REALLY annoy her she has stopped messaging me as much and has declined Xmas invites for drinks at mine.
Its got me thinking that this injection is a real shift long term for men and women , but psychologically its maybe pissing off people that don't struggle????
Another friend was shocked i even told people but im not that sort of person , I'm an open book and chatty and don't see the point ? maybe i should have just kept my mouth shut ? AIBU to feel shocked and disappointed by this ?

OP posts:
SwingTheMonkey · 11/12/2024 09:25

Shwish · 11/12/2024 09:23

Wow. And now personal too. I'm going to have to assume you're the one who's had a nerve hit there.
I have honestly never come across a group where people have assigned "positions" and other members of the group want to keep people in their place (except the police or the army I guess). I'd suggest if these are the groups you are in it doesn't sound healthy at all and you'd be better finding new groups of friends. But you do you. Obviously.

You only have to read the threads on mn on mounjaro (of which there have been many) to know that what the pp said about positions within social groups, is a common occurrence.

Blondeshavemorefun · 11/12/2024 09:29

@Onceachunkymonkey here it is 😄

Not sure if anyone posted as thread won't refresh for me. Grrrrrrr

But to op - true friends would support

She obv feels threatened by you now you are losing weight

And why so many people don't tell anyone

Mounjaro offending close "friends"
GnomeDePlume · 11/12/2024 09:30

Jellycats4life · 11/12/2024 09:19

I’ve been thinking for a while now that all the women (always women) who’ve spent a lifetime with disordered eating, obsessively under-eating and looking down on fatties, are really pissed off that there’s an alternative to weight loss that doesn’t involve misery and deprivation.

I think it is a very interesting medical development. There have been reports of there being improvements for a number of conditions not just weight related.

It wouldn't be surprising as digestion and nutrition are about so much more than just fuel.

Shwish · 11/12/2024 09:31

SwingTheMonkey · 11/12/2024 09:25

You only have to read the threads on mn on mounjaro (of which there have been many) to know that what the pp said about positions within social groups, is a common occurrence.

Is it though? Or is it what's being incorrectly perceived by the person who is taking the medication?
I can see how some people might be jealous of what they see as an "easy" way to lose weight when they feel it's unfair as they had to work at it. Not saying that's a fair point of view but I CAN understand it. That's not the same as actively wanting a "friend" to be forever the "fat one".

Blondeshavemorefun · 11/12/2024 09:33

You still need to make healthy choices and make sure don't eat in excess of calories

It doesn't give all the extreme suppression and can still eat 3 meals

You are training your body.

To eat less.

To drink more water - don't confuse thirst for hunger

It's been about for years helping diabetic people. The ones I know who started it for their diabetes have lost 1-2-3 stone while being on it and this is how it started to be looked at for helping others

Shwish · 11/12/2024 09:33

GnomeDePlume · 11/12/2024 09:30

I think it is a very interesting medical development. There have been reports of there being improvements for a number of conditions not just weight related.

It wouldn't be surprising as digestion and nutrition are about so much more than just fuel.

I agree 100%. I've never suffered with my weight because food hasn't really been that interesting to me. But alcohol I have had a problem with. I'm following because I've heard people say their alcohol noise has been surprised along with the food noise.

creamsnugjumper · 11/12/2024 09:36

Maybe she is genuinely concerned about you as a friend as the side effects are real and there is evidence you may pop the weight back when you stop?

Your post about her is equally nasty, so I'm assuming you don't like her anyhow? Her beautiful figure and male gaze.. that's a pretty horrid way to talk about a friend, she may have her own issues.

So why does her option bother you enough to post??

Maybe there is a grain of truth in it.

creamsnugjumper · 11/12/2024 09:38

No33 · 10/12/2024 13:19

The skinnies are just scared they aren't special anymore.

Congrats OP! Here's to a healthier you!

See that's the thing, the whole thread is about how nasty women are to each other.. and yet you post that??

healthybychristmas · 11/12/2024 09:38

But if she was on any other kind of diet then nobody would say what's the point because you'll put it all back on, would they? Yet Weight Watchers and slimming world and organisations like that only exist because their diets fail.

SwingTheMonkey · 11/12/2024 09:42

Shwish · 11/12/2024 09:31

Is it though? Or is it what's being incorrectly perceived by the person who is taking the medication?
I can see how some people might be jealous of what they see as an "easy" way to lose weight when they feel it's unfair as they had to work at it. Not saying that's a fair point of view but I CAN understand it. That's not the same as actively wanting a "friend" to be forever the "fat one".

I think you’re being too kind. People like this do exist, whether it’s something you’ve personally encountered or not. Same as those who have always been the wealthier friend being pissed off when a friend’s fortune changes. We’ve actually experienced that first hand, with my husband’s brother.

As said, just because it’s not something you’ve experienced or noticed, it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

CautiousLurker01 · 11/12/2024 09:46

BookishType · 10/12/2024 23:26

Mounjaro is not easy. You feel nauseous. You shit through the eye of needle, or you can't shit at all. You get crippling trapped wind, you vomit, and your gas tastes and smells like sulphur.

In the interests of balance, I haven’t had a single one of these side effects and nor have any of the friends I know that are on it. I’ve felt completely normal but the only difference is I have no appetite. So for me, it really has been an easy fix.

Me neither - although I did have few ropey months of intermittent urgent diarrhoea on Ozempic when I first started it. Was really glad to be offered the alternative when they were released. Mounjaro seems to be the go-to medication now precisely because of the lack of side effects — my 16yo son is on it, under the care of an endocrinologist and hasn’t even had the bouts of constipation I used to get on MJ because I am crap at drinking water regularly!

i did wonder whether it was because I was so unhealthy/unfit/generally unwell due to eating crap and not exercising that I didn’t notice any difference when taking the meds. Now, of course, I am active, eating a nutrient rich diet, full of energy in a way that I just wasn’t before so my ‘side effects’ have all been the positive ones associated with weight loss!

SwingTheMonkey · 11/12/2024 09:46

creamsnugjumper · 11/12/2024 09:36

Maybe she is genuinely concerned about you as a friend as the side effects are real and there is evidence you may pop the weight back when you stop?

Your post about her is equally nasty, so I'm assuming you don't like her anyhow? Her beautiful figure and male gaze.. that's a pretty horrid way to talk about a friend, she may have her own issues.

So why does her option bother you enough to post??

Maybe there is a grain of truth in it.

Why would her concern manifest itself in anger and not wanting to see op socially? Thats a real reach.

If what you’re saying is the case, and I don’t believe for a second it is, surely op is an adult and able to risk assess for herself? If she suffers side effects she can decide whether it’s worth continuing. I’ve never personally been concerned about the side effects of any of my friends’ medication, nor actually given it a second thought. Have you? And why would the risk of putting weight back on be either a) any of the friend’s business and b) something she should be any more concerned about than following any other weight loss program?

HollyKnight · 11/12/2024 09:48

It's interesting that the OP never came back. Makes one think that this might just be another one of those froth threads that encourage people to have a go at fat people.

doodleschnoodle · 11/12/2024 09:49

Some might find this article interesting.
It is on Medscape website and headline is:

No, Diet and Exercise Are Not Better Than Drugs for Obesity

'They’re literally not better. Idealistically, sure, but literally not. And there’s really no debate. Meaning there’s never been a reproducible diet and exercise intervention that has led to anywhere near the average weight lost by those taking obesitymedications. Furthermore, when it comes to the durability of weight lost, the gulf between outcomes with diet and exercise vs obesity medications is even more dramatic.
Looking to the literature, one of the most trotted out studies on lifestyle’s impact on weight over time is the Look AHEAD trial. Before useful obesity medications came on the scene, I trotted it out myself. Why? Because it was heartening when faced with the societal refrain that diet and exercise never worked to be able to show that yes, in fact they do. But how well?
Looking to Look AHEAD’s 4-year data, those randomized to the intensive lifestyle initiative arm averaged a 4.7% total body weight loss –‑ an amount that remained the same at 8 years. But I chose 4 years because that’s a better comparison with the semaglutideSELECT trial that revealed at 4 years, the average sustained weight lost was more than double that of Look AHEAD’s, at 10.2%. Meanwhile the recently released SURMOUNT-4 study on tirzepatide reported that at 88 weeks, the average weight lost by participants was a near bariatric surgery level of 25.3% with no signs suggestive of pending regains.
Now maybe you want to cling to the notion that if you just try hard enough, your diet and exercise regime can beat our new meds. Well, it’s difficult to think of a more miserable, often actual vomit-inducing intervention, than the spectacle that used to air weekly on prime time called The Biggest Loser, where participants lived on a ranch and were berated and exercised all day long for the chance to lose the most and win a quarter of a million dollars. But even there, the meds prove to be superior. Although the short-term Biggest Loserr^ data do look markedly better than meds (and than bariatric surgery), whereby the average participant lost 48.8% of their body weight during the grueling 7-month long, 24/7 competition, by postcompetition year 6, the average weight lost dropped to 12.7%.
Yet last week, when word came out that Medicare is likely to extend coverage to obesity medications for far more Americans, one of the most common refrains was something along the lines of yes, lifestyle modification is the best choice for dealing with obesity but it’s good that there will be medication options for those where that’s insufficient.
What?
The only reason that the world isn’t comfortable with the eminently provable truth that diet and exercise are inferior to obesity medications for weight management is weight bias. The message is that people simply aren’t trying hard enough. This despite our comfort in knowing that medications have more of an impact than lifestyle on pretty much every other chronic disease. Nor can I recall any other circumstance when coverage of a remarkably effective drug was qualified by the suggestion that known-to-be-inferior interventions are still the best or favored choice.
At this point, obesity medications are plainly the first line choice of treatment. They provide not only dramatically greater and more durable weight loss than lifestyle interventions, they have also been shown to very significantly reduce the risk for an ever-growing list of other medical concerns including heart attacks, strokes, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, sleep apnea, fatty liver disease, and more, while carrying minimal risk.
Let it also be said that improvements to diet and exercise are worth striving for at any weight, though one should not lose sight of the fact that perpetual, dramatic, intentional, behavior change in the name of health requires vast amounts of wide-ranging privilege to enact ­— amounts far beyond the average person’s abilities or physiologies (as demonstrated with obesity by decades of disappointing long-term lifestyle outcome data).
Let it also be said that some people will indeed find success solely through lifestyle and that not every person who meets the medical criteria for any medication’s prescription, including obesity medications, is required or encouraged to take it. The clinician’s job, however, at its most basic, is to inform patients who meet medical use criteria of their options, and if a medication is indicated, to inform them of that medication’s risks and benefits and expected outcomes, to help their patients come to their own treatment decisions.
It’s not a bad thing that we have medications that deliver better outcomes than lifestyle — in fact, it’s terrific, and thankfully that they do is true for pretty much every medical condition for which we have medication. That’s in fact why we have medications! And so this constant refrain of golly-gee wouldn’t it be better if we could just manage obesity with lifestyle changes needs to be put to rest — we literally know it wouldn’t be better, and it’s only weight bias that would lead this evidence-based statement to seem off-putting.'

FairyLightsInTheMist · 11/12/2024 09:51

It can be a little irritating to keep reading, ‘so this is what eating is like for thin people’, when people start the injections. Of course many slim people have to exercise lots of willpower and ignore ‘food noise’ in order to stay at a healthy weight.

I think the narrative on this has changed with the advent of the injections. In the same way that everyone is now talking about 'food noise' which wasn't a common term before, I'm now seeing across MN a much more concerted argument that slim people work very hard and exercise a lot of self denial to stay slim than I ever saw before. I don't doubt it at all by the way - I'm sure it's true. But the prevailing message before that was the beloved 'it's simple - just eat less and move more' and that came with the implication of 'you stupid greedy fatties just can't stop yourselves'. By pushing how very easy 'eat less move more' was as a statement of superiority, there was a narrative underlying it which suggested that slim people just don't have such depraved appetites as fat people and 'having a dainty appetite' and 'loving exercise' were praised as moral virtues that slim people possess and fat people don't. To some extent, saying 'oh so this is what it's like for thin people' is a result of thin people telling us for a long time that eating less and moving more isn't difficult at all. It was a point of pride to just naturally 'eat like a bird' and automatically self regulate - so we'd get wide eyed threads saying things like 'but why would anyone gain weight over Christmas? It's simply never happened to me so I don't understand because I would never even want to overeat and I could never sit around all day, I adore going for a 10 mile run in the sleet.' (these threads used to be an annual occurrence, I remember them well!) OK, as it turns out, probably a good proportion of those posters were actually working very hard to resist some of the foods they were condemning and struggled through to motivate themselves. But you can't blame readers for believing them at the time!

Now that fat people have actually found a way to eat less and move more, to have a smaller appetite and embrace exercise more easily than before - these things can't be an innate moral virtue anymore. Now eating less and moving more has to be portrayed as an enormous struggle and sacrifice in order to find a different way to keep the moral high ground and put fat people in their place.

Obviously I'm talking about dominant narratives here, not individuals. I've just noticed the vibe shift, as someone who's been reading weight-related threads over the years.

SwingTheMonkey · 11/12/2024 09:53

CautiousLurker01 · 11/12/2024 09:46

Me neither - although I did have few ropey months of intermittent urgent diarrhoea on Ozempic when I first started it. Was really glad to be offered the alternative when they were released. Mounjaro seems to be the go-to medication now precisely because of the lack of side effects — my 16yo son is on it, under the care of an endocrinologist and hasn’t even had the bouts of constipation I used to get on MJ because I am crap at drinking water regularly!

i did wonder whether it was because I was so unhealthy/unfit/generally unwell due to eating crap and not exercising that I didn’t notice any difference when taking the meds. Now, of course, I am active, eating a nutrient rich diet, full of energy in a way that I just wasn’t before so my ‘side effects’ have all been the positive ones associated with weight loss!

To be fair, lots of people do stuffer from side effects on mounjaro, you only need to read some of the posts on the fb support group to see that. It’s very common to have constipation or diarrhoea or sulphur burps or sickness. I’ve had one or two side effects myself, none debilitating though.

creamsnugjumper · 11/12/2024 09:54

@SwingTheMonkey The op is nasty about a friend, the friend is apparently nasty back. The end.

I'm just pointing out the OP wasn't particularly nice about her friend in the first place so why is she arsed about the comments unless there is some truth in them?

CautiousLurker01 · 11/12/2024 09:56

SwingTheMonkey · 11/12/2024 09:25

You only have to read the threads on mn on mounjaro (of which there have been many) to know that what the pp said about positions within social groups, is a common occurrence.

Find posts like the one you replied to to be very disingenuous.

Women have evolved in social situations to be very competitive. Evolutionary psychology shows that in group scenarios women vie for top dog position just a readily as men - being the most attractive = being the most fertile, and therefore being more likely to attract a stronger/healthier male who is better able to sire healthy babies that live past infancy and provide for them as they grow - it’s a basic survival strategy that serves the ‘tribe’ well, too, as you get the heathiest/strongest adults producing the next generation and securing its future. I’ve seen the cometitiveness and the jostling for position in the workplace all my life - there is usually a ‘Queen Bee’ in every office/team, and it is women in my experience (finance and investment banking) who preserve the glass ceiling more ardently than men - if they had to claw their way up the ladder, why should it be any easier for the women coming behind them. Seen in it the typing pools of old and amongst the professional/directorial grades.

Not ALL women, obviously, but it only takes one woman in a position of power/authority to achieve this. I’d like to see us evolve beyond it, and women to be more ready to help other women up, but patriarchy benefits some women, so there will always be those who shore it up.

SwingTheMonkey · 11/12/2024 09:58

creamsnugjumper · 11/12/2024 09:54

@SwingTheMonkey The op is nasty about a friend, the friend is apparently nasty back. The end.

I'm just pointing out the OP wasn't particularly nice about her friend in the first place so why is she arsed about the comments unless there is some truth in them?

I don’t think she was particularly nasty about her friend, actually. If I was in the same position and someone I thought was a friend told me I’d cheated my weigh loss and I’d get even fatter once I stopped the medication, I probably wouldn’t feel like being too kind about them.

And I think we’ve established that what the friend allegedly said to op is absolute bollocks.

Shwish · 11/12/2024 10:01

FairyLightsInTheMist · 11/12/2024 09:51

It can be a little irritating to keep reading, ‘so this is what eating is like for thin people’, when people start the injections. Of course many slim people have to exercise lots of willpower and ignore ‘food noise’ in order to stay at a healthy weight.

I think the narrative on this has changed with the advent of the injections. In the same way that everyone is now talking about 'food noise' which wasn't a common term before, I'm now seeing across MN a much more concerted argument that slim people work very hard and exercise a lot of self denial to stay slim than I ever saw before. I don't doubt it at all by the way - I'm sure it's true. But the prevailing message before that was the beloved 'it's simple - just eat less and move more' and that came with the implication of 'you stupid greedy fatties just can't stop yourselves'. By pushing how very easy 'eat less move more' was as a statement of superiority, there was a narrative underlying it which suggested that slim people just don't have such depraved appetites as fat people and 'having a dainty appetite' and 'loving exercise' were praised as moral virtues that slim people possess and fat people don't. To some extent, saying 'oh so this is what it's like for thin people' is a result of thin people telling us for a long time that eating less and moving more isn't difficult at all. It was a point of pride to just naturally 'eat like a bird' and automatically self regulate - so we'd get wide eyed threads saying things like 'but why would anyone gain weight over Christmas? It's simply never happened to me so I don't understand because I would never even want to overeat and I could never sit around all day, I adore going for a 10 mile run in the sleet.' (these threads used to be an annual occurrence, I remember them well!) OK, as it turns out, probably a good proportion of those posters were actually working very hard to resist some of the foods they were condemning and struggled through to motivate themselves. But you can't blame readers for believing them at the time!

Now that fat people have actually found a way to eat less and move more, to have a smaller appetite and embrace exercise more easily than before - these things can't be an innate moral virtue anymore. Now eating less and moving more has to be portrayed as an enormous struggle and sacrifice in order to find a different way to keep the moral high ground and put fat people in their place.

Obviously I'm talking about dominant narratives here, not individuals. I've just noticed the vibe shift, as someone who's been reading weight-related threads over the years.

I find it irritating that so many fat people assume that slim people think they are superior to them! It might be true for some arseholes but honestly it absolutely isn't for most people. I don't spend any time at all worrying about whether I'm better than someone else just because I'm slimmer. That's absolute nonsense. I guess there's a slight moral element to not tying to look after yourself, whether that's trying to become a healthier weight or (in my case) not drink alcohol - I can't just have one - or for example see a doctor if you know you are unwell in another way that is affecting you. We all have a responsibility to TRY and be as healthy as we can. But fat people DO seem to often have the opinion that everyone slimmer than them spends their whole time looking down on them, and therefore seem to be angry pre-emptively with those people. Assuming that people want to keep them forever the fat friend!

Shwish · 11/12/2024 10:03

CautiousLurker01 · 11/12/2024 09:56

Find posts like the one you replied to to be very disingenuous.

Women have evolved in social situations to be very competitive. Evolutionary psychology shows that in group scenarios women vie for top dog position just a readily as men - being the most attractive = being the most fertile, and therefore being more likely to attract a stronger/healthier male who is better able to sire healthy babies that live past infancy and provide for them as they grow - it’s a basic survival strategy that serves the ‘tribe’ well, too, as you get the heathiest/strongest adults producing the next generation and securing its future. I’ve seen the cometitiveness and the jostling for position in the workplace all my life - there is usually a ‘Queen Bee’ in every office/team, and it is women in my experience (finance and investment banking) who preserve the glass ceiling more ardently than men - if they had to claw their way up the ladder, why should it be any easier for the women coming behind them. Seen in it the typing pools of old and amongst the professional/directorial grades.

Not ALL women, obviously, but it only takes one woman in a position of power/authority to achieve this. I’d like to see us evolve beyond it, and women to be more ready to help other women up, but patriarchy benefits some women, so there will always be those who shore it up.

The post was mine. And it wasn't disengenuous at all! It was my genuine experience. Outside of school I have NEVER come across a group with a prescribed "fat friend" or "hot one" or whatever.

Fernhurst · 11/12/2024 10:04

Blondeshavemorefun · 11/12/2024 09:29

@Onceachunkymonkey here it is 😄

Not sure if anyone posted as thread won't refresh for me. Grrrrrrr

But to op - true friends would support

She obv feels threatened by you now you are losing weight

And why so many people don't tell anyone

Love the bingo card.

mitogoshigg · 11/12/2024 10:05

I'm kind of in two minds because whilst everyone is different, thinner people are often making better choices and that's why they are thin, my dd looks amazing but only because she runs, weight trains, plays sport and watches her diet carefully, if she doesn't she puts weight on.

Contrary to the current noise around these drugs, you need to eat sensibly to maintain weight with or without them. Without the drugs they are using willpower so don't discount how hard it is

Shwish · 11/12/2024 10:06

Shwish · 11/12/2024 10:01

I find it irritating that so many fat people assume that slim people think they are superior to them! It might be true for some arseholes but honestly it absolutely isn't for most people. I don't spend any time at all worrying about whether I'm better than someone else just because I'm slimmer. That's absolute nonsense. I guess there's a slight moral element to not tying to look after yourself, whether that's trying to become a healthier weight or (in my case) not drink alcohol - I can't just have one - or for example see a doctor if you know you are unwell in another way that is affecting you. We all have a responsibility to TRY and be as healthy as we can. But fat people DO seem to often have the opinion that everyone slimmer than them spends their whole time looking down on them, and therefore seem to be angry pre-emptively with those people. Assuming that people want to keep them forever the fat friend!

Oh and just to be clear - I think by taking the medication - you WOULD be doing your best to remain healthy.

FairyLightsInTheMist · 11/12/2024 10:09

Well on a wider level, society tells us that fat people are inferior to slim people @shwish - it's more about the messages absorbed than it is about 'individual slim people' vs 'individual fat people'. There is an enormous amount of moral worth and value attached to our bodies and it affects all of us. I don't think it's as calculated and deliberate as anyone deciding to make someone 'the fat friend' in a conscious way, it's just that we all get shaped by diet culture and it manifests in the way we talk about weight, the way we feel about it and the way we make others feel about it, intentionally or otherwise.

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