Sick of ignorant people re my religion

[Loisep]

I’m married to a Dane. We met in London at university. We have a great relationship but the ignorance from his friends, family and acquaintances is almost too much to handle.

I am half Indian and was loosely raised Sikh. I think the UK does quite well in comparison to other countries re education on religion. Most Brits do not naturally assume I am Muslim.

That is not the case when I am in Denmark. God forbid I have a beer with new people. “Oh is that not halal?” Blah blah. I end up feeling guilty saying no I’m not Muslim all the time. Like I am distancing myself. I knew there would cultural differences but I never expected such ignorance. So many people think brown people = Arab (in Europe).

Dh wants to move back home and I would if it wasn’t for this extreme ignorance. I worry for future kids.

Am I the one with a chip on my shoulder? Should I just accept that people from other countries have been exposed to different cultural groups? Ie not had an Indian diaspora

That's the thing, right? It's like when you're on a diet and you eat a dessert at a restaurant and somebody asks you if you're allowed to have that. People could just stay in their own lanes.

I live in an area with lots of Sikh and Muslim families. I can usually work out who is who if people are still quite traditional. But it is all a massive generalisation based on brightness of clothes, amount of jewelry and amount of make up. This will sound bollocky and might be but also the Sikh friends/people I know have more almond shaped eyes and big eyelashes (men and women).

As regards your East Asian example: a Japanese friend of mine was studying in London in the 80s. An English woman approached her at a bus stop, and asked her, 'Are you from Hong Kong?' My friend replied, 'No, I am from Japan.' 'Oh, does that belong to Hong Kong?'

There is a narrative in Denmark that Islam and Danish culture are incompatible. The burqa and niqab are banned. Practising Ramadan is viewed with suspicion. It may be just naive curiosity behind the questions. Or the colour of your skin might have raised some concerns about a Muslim joining the family/ social group. I wouldn’t like it either and I don’t think you are being unreasonable.

It's not your job to educate ignorant people, either on this thread or in real life.

Although having said that, instead of saying "I'm not Muslim" could you preface it with something like "Do you know in the UK, it's generally considered rude to ask someone their religion?". Because it seems like not only is your Sikh heritage being erased but you're also being asked to ignore your British heritage.

Many Danes would think 'Oh well go home to UK if you don't like the Danish way of living'. They wouldn't stop being direct in their style of communication.

Koolaid isn’t particularly very British. Perhaps you meant drinking the anti British Vimto? 🤔

Most people can’t tell the difference. I’m Japanese and have had so many people tell me how many Japanese there are in (fill in the blank UK city). They’re Chinese but never mind…

It’s one thing to not know the difference or to ask questions even if it seems a lot sometimes for the person facing it but it is quite another to see a brown person having a drink or eating certain foods etc and the question them as if in their eyes you are breaking religious rules.

they might not have experience of lots of other religions but they do know they exist so why question someones choices when you have no information except for the colour of their skin.
fine to be direct and inquisitive (if tiresome for the person) not fine to make comments (normally with a negative tone) on another’s choices with no information about them.

Having to explain yourself to strangers day in day out just because you exist does get very wearing very quickly. Some days my thick skin does the trick, and other days I get upset and fed up. Only you know whether you can live with the discomfort.

Exactly! I'm often astounded by British exceptionalism and self-perceived superiority.

So you go to a foreign country as a guest and start lecturing them on 'British ways' because you don't like the way they communicate in their own country? The only possible reply to that is fuck off back then, adding 'please' at the end if one's feeling generous.

I'm from a blunt and direct culture, similar to Danish or Dutch. The question 'are you muslim' wouldn't phase me a jot. Neither would 'how much do you make' if talking about jobs or how much do you weight if talking about fitness/clothing/sizes. Yet when I'm in the UK, I throw in multiple of those ridiculous pleases, thank yous and sorrys you guys love so much after every two words. And I don't ask someone's religion, political views or salary. Because I know it's a no no here. All the non-Brits I know do this to a lesser or greater extent.

But if some Brit ventures in my country, like fuck I am going to kowtow to their sensibilities, and/or fridig prudishness about...pretty much anything. Don't like it? Don't come. No great loss. It's that simple.

A Dane in Denmark is perfectly entitled to ask a perfectly simple (to them) question. You can either move there or don't, I doubt they'd care much either way.

This 100%. I am British and I totally agree. If you go to another country then abide by their culture. Don’t like it, fuck off to somewhere you like. There’s a reason many of these direct speaking countries often come top of the happiest places to live polls. Go to a Muslim country don’t moan about drinking laws come to Britain don’t moan about pub culture.

Even within the UK there’s different cultures esp the farther west you go.

Certain groups0ush the agenda of trying to make all cultures and places the same. Travelling is less of a culture shock these days, but different nationalities and even different areas within those nationalities will always be different. I always find it laughable that often the very people who whitter on about how everyone and everywhere are the same are the same who moan incoherently about cultural appropriation etc.,

And which culture do the rules you’re trying to impose come from? Are these Danish cultural rules?

Yep, there's this strange British arrogance that assumes that the rest of the world ought to be just like us in terms of culture, communication etc. And weirdly, it always seems to come from the self-hating types who think Britain is the most racist, awful country in the world.

Lots of other countries are outspoken about personal traits and don't have the cringing sensitivity we do to matters of religion.

This is a non issue. Sikhs have been mistaken for Muslims for years and in many different countries, not just Denmark. Someone in Denmark asks you if your Muslim, you say no, you move on, end of matter.

A simple google search of 'Sikhs being mistaken for Muslims' shows many many hits with Sikhs being killed, abused and facing violence.

You say "I’m so shocked that people genuinely think it is acceptable to assume a person’s religion based on nothing more than skin colour or physical appearance in 2024" then I would suggest that you have no experience of living in the aftermath of 9-11. For a lot of Sikhs, all over the world, and specifically in the USA and the UK, there was quite a lot of abuse.

So your issue is not really limited to Denmark, it could happen anywhere.

It just so happens that the issue in question is not one of violence or abuse, it is simply a polite question.

Sikhs being targeted with Islamophobic abuse, MP warns | Metro News

Yes you have a chip on your shoulder. Why does it bother you that people are curious, just have a witty comeback if you are questioned about drinking

What? How the hell does the fact that Sikhs are commonly assumed fo be Muslim and subjected to abuse make this a 'non issue'?

Do you mean it's a 'non issue' because in this instance these people aren't abusing her? Well, to be sure that'd be a heck of a lot worse but that still doesn't make it ok.

It doesn't strike me as refreshing directness, it's casual racism - even if meant without any malice - on a par with the 'but where are you really from' sort of faux pas which in a more multicultural society most decent people with a bit of empathy and awareness manage to avoid.

I agree the OP is perhaps fortunate not to have experienced this already in the U.K. My Sikh best friend from uni days did after 9/11 , 7/7 etc. I wouldn't be blithely sure that if there is a terrorist incident affecting Danes that the 'polite question' didn't turn into something darker.

Oh do piss off @mathanxiety. Ignorance is not bliss and doesn't excuse your overt racism.

No it’s not.
I can’t imagine someone in Denmark asking a white British person in the pub, if they are Christian for example.

Hi OP,

I live in Denmark (I am not Danish, but from another European country). I also lived in London in my 20ties and I don't think you can compare Copenhagen & London in terms of diversity.

I am sorry your DH's friends were so ignorant! I do think it's rude to assume someone's religion based on their religion.

I think Danes are very direct and it is something I had to get used to, but I think those comments you mentioned are not just direct, but rude. I don't think lack of religious education can be an excuse.

I do think if you decide to live in Denmark, you'll need to find a way to deal with it (be direct back for example).

On the positive note, I think Denmark is a great place to raise children and people can be very friendly and welcoming once you get to know them. But even though there are lots of international people living here, it's nothing like in London in terms of diversity.

well yeah but that was around 40 years ago!

I am danish. For me it is a perfectly normal conversational question. We are often direct and curious.
And we dont know much of other religions if we dont live close to People with religion.

If something frustrates you as a tourist it will only be exaggerated as an immigrant. So right or wrong it will happen and it's up to you to figure out if you can live with it.

I live in Scotland and am Jewish - so part of a teeny tiny minority. Im also an immigrant. So while I'm personally not visibly different I am once I speak. I have had several bewildering conversations - and my children have had issues at school - but nothing I'm not willing to deal with.

I'd think about the implications for any children carefully too.

Also I wanted to add - I don't think it's like this just in Denmark. I also lived in Germany & Austria and it's the same.

In German language it's called "alltagsrassismus" (everyday racism).

How is it rude? Its just human nature to associate something with what you think you know. The vanishingly small number of other ethnicties and religions in Denmark means its not likely to be on anyones radar.

Humans make mistakes, they get things wrong, they dont necessarily know about everything. Why would they?