To stipulate minimum number of nights at home for DD?

[teenmumstress24]

DD turned 18 a few months ago. Her 18th birthday coincided with her meeting a new boyfriend who she is inseparable from. She spends around 1-3 nights per fortnight at home, and that's only to sleep / occasionally grab food or a shower. She doesn't converse with anyone (unless to ask for lifts or to borrow cash), and she certainly doesn't do any housework. Since this time there have been numerous issues and arguments; mostly around the following themes:

• constant requests for lifts from me or partner (although this has declined since her boyfriend passed his driving test a few weeks ago as he's seemingly the taxi now)
• never doing any housework
• never being at home long enough to converse with anyone and all her interactions being requests for something
• letting me and her little sister down after agreeing to do something with us and then dropping us in favour of the boyfriend (little sister is only 3 so doesn't understand and gets very upset about her big sister not being there)
• more recently me and my partner (her step dad) we're both told to "fuck off" when we were unable to facilitate a lift whilst juggling bedtime and household tasks between us after work one evening (she later apologised for this; but it's left a very sour taste)
• boyfriend got involved in disagreement following the above incident, and whilst I was the on the phone to her during a heated discussion about that, I was apparently on loudspeaker as I could hear the boyfriend chirping up "just hang up on her" (to my daughter about me)

I'm at my wits end and I can't take anymore. I've contact the GP for some medication to take the edge off because I feel so low and as though I've basically lost my daughter. I've tried telling her miss her, I'm sad about it all, I want her to spend more time at home, etc. She still doesn't. All I get from her is, "it's normal for me to want to be at his house more often he's a new boyfriend". However, she makes time for her dad, her dad's side of the family, my sister (her aunt who's she close to), her friends, and her boyfriend. The only person she lets down and seems to not want to be around is me.

She pays no board (she's at college and works part time earning only about £70-100 a week so I've never taken any money off her). I pay for her phone contract. She doesn't contribute to the food shop here but does buy her own takeaways etc . Her only regular bill is a gym membership.

I've suggested to her since she appears to not live here anymore that she moves out and pays her boyfriends mum board? The response was "I don't want to move out". But 1-3 nights here a fortnight on average would suggest she pretty much has moved out. She has the largest room in the house and it's just wasted space, it's never occupied.

My AIBU is, would I be unreasonable to stipulate that if she wants to continue to live here that I put in place the following rules:

1- she actually occupies her room more regularly than 1-3 times a fortnight? So set a minimum number.
2- she pulls her weight with household tasks and until I see her doing so on a regular basis without any prompting or nagging, I will charge her board. I will stop charging board once she pulls her weight regularly.

Does this sound reasonable? My head is a total mess with it all, I'm struggling to disentangle the emotion from the practical side, so it may come across as garbled. I'm not a good place with it all tbh as I feel so lost and as though she just dislikes me for some reason 😔

Any help appreciated.

@Goldenbear
Exactly, she won't have that same worry for him. Interestingly I attended a parents evening for her last week and the feedback was consistently "excellent in lessons, needs to match this effort outside of classes to get the grades she's capable of". Obviously that isn't happening because the boyfriend is priority. But we've had many of those arguments too, so I've given up on that as well.

Why don’t you invite him round @teenmumstress24 ?

Of course she knows. It will be apparent from your behaviour and will be impacting her choices. Not your fault, but I’d guess you’re not easy to be around at the moment. You think she’s the nightmare, but my guess is that she might tell a different story.

It’s really painful when our first child pulls away. It’s normal though and apart from the telling you to fuck off, which is unacceptable, I think you need to play the long game and sit back and wait.

Rightly or wrongly, she feels badly about you at the moment, as signified by her wanting to spend time with other members of the family. The more you try to cling on to her the more she’ll pull away.

Stop banging on about chores and don’t even contemplate issuing demands that she stays a minimum number of nights. This will push her further away.

Cast your gaze elsewhere for a while. A bit of benevolent neglect towards her will probably do you both good.

Usually these things sort themselves out. It’s a horrible transition.

That’s what teenagers do, treat their home like a hotel. If I was you I wouldn’t worry so much about her not being there etc enjoy the quiet. Is she keeping up with her A levels that would be more concerning but if she is and working part time she is doing ok.

@TiptoeThroughTheToadstools thank you

Those saying about meeting him, there was a plan for that recently, he cancelled

She shouldn't be rude and swear to you, but I think you do need to give her some space at the moment it you'll end up alienating her more.

She needs to know that her boyfriend is welcome at her home, make him feel included so that she doesn't have to choose between spending time at home or with him.

If she's got college, working, boyfriend, and spends time at her dads, she's got quite a busy life. She needs to know you're there for her, even if she's not utilising that now. In the same way that young children need to know that they can run back to you, she needs to feel secure at home as well. I'd totally take the pressure off for a bit, encourage her to bring BF round, and let her try to integrate this new 'important person' into her family.

I haven't reacted teenager stage yet (and dread it) but a lot of kids go through stages like this as teenagers. They usually bounce back as long, and I think trying to just calmly ride it out probably helps. This BF could be round for years, or (more likely) in a few months time you'll be supporting her through a break up, and repeat, repeat. If things get tough, you want to make sure she still knows that she can rely on you, that she's got a home, her bed, her stuff, and that you'll be a nom judgemental shoulder to cry on.

My daughter was a bit like this. She has now split up with the boyfriend, and she’s back to normal.

Give it time, and allow her room to grow.

It sounds like you are grieving for her in a way OP, but it is perfectly natural for her to want to do her own thing at 18, trying to force her to follow rules about minimum number of nights at home etc will only drive her further away, it sounds like she has got plenty of places to go.

It's a horrible position to find yourself in, but there is nothing you can do to force this now. Besides, it's only been a couple of months, the novelty will wear off with the new boyfriend and she'll settle into a pattern, or even come home, threatening to switch her bedrooms after a couple of months of her sleeping elsewhere almost sounds like a punishment and she will certainly see it that way, that you are doing it to get back at her. If after 6 months the pattern remain then talk to her then about swapping things as it is more practical.

In the meantime, drop the rope, stop asking her to things that she will flake on, stop paying for things for her, and if she isn't cleaning up after herself then it's an automatic no to any lifts. Respect has to work both ways.

I have an 18 year old. Almost overnight she turned from a lovely, compliant, amenable daughter who spent lots of time with the family, to one who was out all the time, meeting loads of new people, only came back to sleep, left messes around the house, and sighed and rolled her eyes a lot. And there was no boyfriend in her case.

This is normal. The boyfriend will have opened her eyes to a world beyond that which she was previously accustomed too. It's exciting, new and fresh. Of course, she wants to immerse herself in that world and not a world where she has to play with a 3 year old (however much she loves her) and do household chores.

Let her go. Absolutely pull her up on the worst of the behaviour (the being told to fuck off in your case) but accept that a lot of it is just growing up. Ask about her plans and say you hope she enjoys the whatever it is. Don't mention that you hardly see her. In my experience they come back of their own accord but pushing makes them go further away.

@sandyhappypeople
Your first sentence sums up my feelings. It may sound "melodramatic" to people who haven't been there and aren't capable of empathy, but ultimately you've hit the nail on the head there. We were so close for so long, and now I just feel bereft without that relationship. It's only because I love and care about so much that I feel it so intensely. And the feeling that I've done something wrong as a mum to have suddenly lost her like this, that guilt, is what's eating me up 😔

Well that's good but yes, it is worrying that she may miss out on achieving her best. It is definitely ok to want your teenager to think of others, even if you know they at a stage in their life that is naturally self centred. I agree about not wanting to feel used, you a person in your own right as well as a Mum and I'm clear about that with my teens. Late teens do need to understand that their adult parents have emotions and feel things IMO. Yes, when they are young children, you mostly shield them from that but ultimately as you are a person in your own right it's fine for late teens to realise that and I think it is a normal transition into an adult orientated relationship with them. I am not perfect and my DH isn't and that's ok surely that's how teens develop empathy and compassion in the safety of the family home.

Bullshit. The problem is not the boyfriend, it's her. The majority of young adults at 18 are either going to university while working 2-3 afternoons to pay for board at home and having their own pocket money, doing apprenticeships getting paid, or in full time work.

What they don't do is verbally abusing their mother for trying to implement some boundaries in her own home.

I think you just need to be there for her - she's an adult and is making her own decisions whether you think that they are right or wrong. I never heard my daughters swear in front of me (everyone knows I hate swearing) though realistically they did to others) but I've been told to sod off a fair few times by them. I've said things that they didn't necessarily want to hear. They were defining their own boundaries. I've shared in their disappointments, their hurt and their joys.

I had a mortgage at 19 and married at 20 (still married). I had three children between the ages of 25 and 29.

I hated it when my older daughter started staying out with her boyfriend. One night a week gradually increased to seven. She'd sometimes turn up unexpectedly and I'd not prepared meal for her and she'd seem upset. But there'd been many meals wasted at first. We mainly kept in contact by text messages after that. She came home to see us at least weekly and we would have a catch up. We eventually met the 'chap' and found out why she hadn't brought him home previously (notorious family). I would see her driving about and wave and she looked well and happy. That's all I want - my children to be happy and healthy. I've always been there to help with guidance (and money). Gradually, her belongings disappeared from her room and her younger sister claimed it as hers and suddenly I had a spare room which had a single bed and my craft stuff, finally organised, in it. My older daughter is now a single mother to three children with additional needs (similar to hers) in her 30s. She has a mortgage, an immaculate 4 bedroom house, her children are beautifully dressed and I love spending time with them all. She is happy. She now hates men. She has been quite fierce, fighting for the health, education and welfare of her children and I am very proud (of all my children). Things worked out in the end because we've accepted the outcomes.

Now both of my daughters have daughters and they're realising that, one day they will leave. Whether they sidle off with a boyfriend or go onto university is down to various factors. (My older daughter would never have gone to university at that point in time because she has autism, dyslexia and other chronic conditions. She was not supported at college to go further than level 2 as she could not attain above that level. Her reading/writing levels remain quite low. She felt abandoned educationally - whereas now there seems to be more support available.)

My older daughter's daughter, who is in year 4, was wanting to play with friends on the green (can be seen from her house) this summer and she had the first pangs of realising she was growing up and away.

As parents we can only be there to support/guide when needed and be ready to pick up the pieces if required.

It's very hard to let go, especially if it happens in drips and drabs (not the finality of 'Mum I'm leaving home next year to go to university/move in with my partner').

I poignantly remember my dear old dad asking me to visit more regularly as mum had felt low for a time when I left home. It happens to us all.

She's 18, it's a phase she's going through. I would just relax about it and let her get on with it. You're being a bit dramatic, she will come back around.

I have been there, three times and I do have empathy, but still recognise your statement as being very unhealthy and codependent. I can feel your pain, but urge you to seek some professional support.

Why do you think people haven’t been there with their own mothers and their own kids?

And the feeling that I've done something wrong as a mum to have suddenly lost her like this, that guilt, is what's eating me up 😔

I don't think you've done much wrong based on what you've posted here. All our kids are different. My DD is a lovely teenager (currently!) but I can't be sure it's all due to my fantastic parenting. I've always had no problem with saying no to her but she's never really pushed boundaries in a serious way so it's been a lot easier! If she suddenly started being arsy maybe I too would struggle?

We were so close for so long, and now I just feel bereft without that relationship. It's only because I love and care about so much that I feel it so intensely.

I’d suggest your previous trauma is contributing to those intense feelings - you’ve said as much yourself. Feelings of loss are very natural as relationships shift and change the way they do as kids move into adulthood - they’re yours to deal with though, it’s not for your daughter to fill the gap.

Sorry but I think this analysis is highly dramatic, she's a Mum of an 18 year old, one that is still College age, her concerns are completely normal and look nothing like codependency. It is completely normal to miss the childhood days, you just have to learn to process it and then realise the next chapter has begun!

It sounds vaguely normal but I wouldn’t put up with being told to fuck off by her. Could be a phase depending on what she’s like normally? I look back at some of my behaviour at that age and I don’t know what I was thinking (I was definitely a bit of an asshole). Lack of maturity and the mistakes we make as we’re growing up and trying to figure our who
we are. I really wouldn’t push her to make a choice or move out. That really will burn bridges. I think you have to play the long game here.

You can ignore it if you like but acknowledging it might help you to get things in perspective.

In the scheme of things DD is doing well - A levels, job, bf. She’s finding her feet as an independent person which is exactly what she’s supposed to be doing at this age. That means she will be well prepared for adult life, to leave for uni, to go out into the world etc.

And this is for some reason sending you into a meltdown.

The swearing is not ok and from the mess she leaves it seems you haven’t trained her to clean up after herself. But she’s not dropping out of school, doing drugs, binge drinking, hasn’t got an eating disorder or an anxiety disorder or a self harm habit so far as we know.

She’s doing perfectly ok. It’s simply that you seem dependent on her attention, company, approval - for reasons that are not clear.

You haven't lost her. This is just the cycle of life! Our children will never love us as much as we love them. They're not designed to. They stay with us while they need us, and then the less they need us the more they pull away to start their own lives. It's not instant. It's a gradual process. It has nothing to do with doing something wrong as a mother. This is just the way it's supposed to be. Trying to stop that process will cause issues for your future relationship.

Of course it normal, but words like ‘bereft’’ and ‘intensely’ and needing medication are a pretty extreme response, don’t you think? It’s not a criticism of the OP, by the way. I feel sorry for her as she’s obviously really upset.

I have been in this situation with my DD (now 25). I promise you it will pass.

In our case, DD then 16, was basically being controlled and coerced into spending time with said boyfriend and his family. This took the form of threats and threatened suicide. We suspected at the time but she denied it. My greatest fear was that she would fall pregnant and end up with the PoS.

She was also entitled and selfish. I even spend ages decorating her room because she was round his house all the time. I was very stupid.

She finally ended the relationship when she went to Uni in another town and the scales fell from her eyes. She later reported him to the police.

I remember the frustration and upset, but I would strongly advise you not to react or give ultimatums. Perhaps they are both just fucking entitled and selfish.
But anyway, keep inviting DD and bf round for meals or to join you in stuff as a family. It won’t be forever. Bite your tongue and keep her onside.