Would you report this to the police?

[RockOrAHardplace]

I am Executor of a Will for elderly person who recently died. Unknown to me, there had been an LPA in place for finances as elderly person was in a dementia care home. Once the elderly person passed the LPA was no longer valid and it all fell to me as executor.

Transpires the person entrusted with the LPA robbed her blind and didn't pay any of her bills despite taking the money from the account. Nor did they register the LPA with the elderly persons bank. LPA was also taken out 2 years after elderly person had lost her mental capacity and was in a dementia care home. According to bank statements, whilst in dementia care home, which she never left, said elderly woman was buying designer clothes at Urban Outfitters, eating meals at nice restaurants, attending concerts and buying petrol for her car (elderly person never drove) and was having supermarket food deliveries delivered to a house 60 miles away where the holder of the LPA lived in a fully catered secure dementia care home..

Tried reporting to the Office of Public Guardian as the LPA should never have been allowed but as the elderly person is dead, their powers have lapsed.

Person who had the LPA entrusted cannot account for the whereabouts of the money, we are talking enough to buy a small house. There wasn't even any money to bury the person person in the estate (but before you ask the money came from elsewhere and she had a lovely funeral).

Would it be reasonable to report it to the Police or unreasonable to do so?

I'm sorry to say that whilst I have been gathering my evidence, I have knocked on lots of doors, gone to lots of advice sessions and the advice I was given by a solicitor was not to take a Civil case against the family member, because it will cost me (not the estate as there isn't any money) at least £10K and whilst I have an excellent chance of winning, if the family member has spent the cash, all they can do is put a charge against the family members house which I could not force the sale of. Therefore I would leave myself considerably out of pocket to.

I have therefore gone the Police route and should that fail I now have two backup plans, so if they get told the Police are not progressing it, they will swiftly get the next shock that someone else is. And if the only satisfaction I can get is that they have had months worrying about the Police, then so be it. But it is sooooo wrong.

Financial abuse of the elderly thru LPA's seems relatively common and the crime rarely comes to court and that needs to change.

A million percent please report it

Radio 4 is broadcasting a series on this type of abusive type of LPA at the moment. It's broadcast at 1:45pm each day. Might be worth contacting the program with your information.

@Wingedharpy i had this situation with my step mother she just did exactly what she wanted transferring my dads funds and I couldn’t do anything about it as had no access.

OP I am in a similar situation. Thanks for posting, especially the PPs for the C4 and BBC links.

OP several times you state that elderly relative was declared as having lost their capacity. The mental capacity act is a complex one as states that capacity is now a blanket term that someone loses and never regains. It is judged on a decision by decision basis and is time dependent. Just because elderly relative didn't have capacity to return home whilst in hospital, does not mean that she didn't regain some capacity at a later date to make a decision about giving a relative an LPOA. I agree that it does sound rather dodgy, and she may well not have had the capacity to grant LPOA but you can't say that someone had lost their capacity two years prior. Additionally, the LPOA may not hold up if never counter signed by a solicitor.

As Exexcutor you could find yourself subject to a claim against you personally from the beneficiaries who are being "diddled" out of their inheritance if you fail to report this

Did you watch the Channel Four programme suggested up thread OP?

I'm curious as to why some police forces take on these cases and some don't?

I wish you luck though. Elder financial abuse is clearly rife.

As executor are you not legally bound to report the fraud?

I take your point but dementia does not improve as it progresses it declines and if they discount what I consider to be dodgy circumstances in which the LPA was signed, once it was signed, the Attorney (family member appointed to act on elderly persons behalf) has a legal duty of care to act in the best interests of the Donor (Elderly Person) and should be able to evidence this.

Also the GP records clearly state that elderly person had lost their mental capacity (their words not mine) and that the family member had been advised.

Hospital discharge notes show loss of mental capacity and an assessment was undertaken in the care home and its noted loss of mental capacity. In my mind, this should have been a court of protection order and NOT an LPA. But obviously the OPG only know what they get told.

Significant cash was taken by the Attorney via the ATM and not using the LPA (which in itself is dodgy) and was not used to pay the bills and remains unaccounted for. In addition online shopping for groceries being delivered to the family members home when OAP is in a fully catered home, holidays etc but then Attorney saying they haven't received any gifts has to be an indication that they have not acted in that persons best interests.

Sadly you do not need a solicitor or medical person to counter sign an LPA, as long as Joe Bloggs has known them for two years and says they have the capacity to understand what they are signing. The OPG will not address it as the person is deceased and they no longer have power to act. Its therefore up to the Police and hopefully the court to decided if it was legal or not.

Its all very subjective.

Yes, and that is my argument with family. But morally, I am struggling with how the abuse happened and no-one suspected (including me).

@RockOrAHardplace you have done the right thing.

I understand how you must be struggling with not spotting the abuse earlier, part of it is because you have good values and trusted the family member to behave lawfully. No one likes to think a relative would breach a vulnerable family members trust but, sadly, money does this to some people.

The OPG and Court of Protection need the resources to make sure vulnerable people are protected and that some of the current loopholes are closed.

That's interesting @RockOrAHardplace In Scotland, A Medical Doctor or a Solicitor MUST be the ones to certify that the Donor has mental capacity to understand what implications granting a POA may mean for them. I'm shocked that South of the Border Laws are that anyone can certify the same. Leaves it very easy for the scenario that you are dealing with to happen.

You have done the right thing in reporting it though - no matter what other family members say.

There was a BBC news item about this issue yesterday, regarding a law firm but apparently the government are looking into abuse of LPAs.
i don’t know how to post a link but put “news power of attorney uk” in google and it came up on bbc website. Interesting to read and there is also a link to contact them with your story.

Report it as it also compromises your integrity/responsibilty to the deceased.

Because the art of fraud is deception. If they made it obvious to you or others, they simply wouldn’t be very good at committing fraud.

This isn’t your fault. Not the act of fraud nor the reporting. I’m stunned your family wouldn’t back you all the way.

To put it another way, we don’t give a hall pass to murderers because the victims is deceased. I’m just curious as to where your family thinks the line should be drawn. Which crimes should be punishable after the victims have passed, and which should not. I suspect they’d argue proportionality - but again, this doesn’t sound like they swiped a cheeky tenna from a grandparent for sweets. This is systematic, calculated, and long term. You can sleep soundly at night, I’m not sure the same is true for your relative(s).

Some think it is harming the families reputation....I think it would if we did nothing!

Others are concerned about the pressure it would put on me.

Its been said that if the Police don't take it further, I will end up with egg on my face - and could face a terrible time with said family member.

One very close person has caution ed that this family member is not beyond doing me for defamation of character/slander if the police do not progress it. This I took great offence to, as I have given the family member every opportunity to come clean, I have asked reasonable questions based on their inability to explain what happened with the substantial amount of money, because as the Attorney they had accountability for the monies whereabouts and the evidence is quite condemning.

I haven't done this lightly, I spent ages gathering the evidence and double checking stuff and given them time to explain or qualify how the monies were spent.

Not one single person who has seen the evidence has disagreed with my findings. These are third party factual documents that I could have no sway on, bank statements, legal documents, medical records, financial records etc. The trail is pretty clear.

Finally I said that as the Executor, I am legally required to act. I have taken a reasonable and considered approach and will stand my ground.

Several have said its the right thing to do but they couldn't do it. Then there are those who are lining up to join in the bun fight.

This is going to get nasty so I am pushing on, and keeping my head down.

You’re doing the right thing. The evidence speaks for itself.

The family member tore the family apart the day they started stealing from a loved one. They started this, not you.

Stay strong, you’ll look back on this moment and be glad you found the courage to follow through.

They won't do you for defamation of character/slander - they know you have a raft of evidence to present and everyone will see that evidence and work it out for themselves.

They couldn't anyway as defamation and slander are civil matters and they couldn't afford to bring the court action against me and I have a very good defence in that as the Executor, I have a legal obligation to follow out the deceased requests and ensure the monies reach the intended destination. Any solicitor they went to, may threaten it, but when they see the evidence they will back down and said family member will be left with a legal bill to pay. So yes, bring it on.

One thing though.......I am NEVER going to agree to being an Executor again.

This sounds familiar.

in our case many family members have taken the other side. She has convinced them that she was looking after the relative, giving them lifts, doing all the shopping, that they were so ill and dependent, they practically gave up their own lives to care for them.

anyone who’s seen the bank statements or actually spoke to the relative realised it was coercive control- and the “help” was essentially making them so dependent they couldn’t leave the house without the relative, and their spending was completely controlled, as was their access to relatives.

but somehow she’s convinced people that the poor elderly woman didn’t have much money and she was an angel carer. I think she believes it herself as well.

i of course am evil and just want the money myself.

In your shoes I would report it to the police - take copies of your evidence as well just in case items get lost or delayed.
Previous posters have said about making it harder to lodge the poa - but when care homes etc need to be paid someone has to be able to access the bank account and £6000 a month is not easy to find for next of kin

Sadly, even having a Solicitor as the attorney doesn't mean this sort of thing won't happen.

you are doing the right thing - the decent thing - the only thing - you are a decent person - just keep telling yourself that and also of course that you are brave - seriously I think half the nation would stand by you on this one - sending you massive amounts of strength

You must report this as it is fraud