Would you report this to the police?

[RockOrAHardplace]

I am Executor of a Will for elderly person who recently died. Unknown to me, there had been an LPA in place for finances as elderly person was in a dementia care home. Once the elderly person passed the LPA was no longer valid and it all fell to me as executor.

Transpires the person entrusted with the LPA robbed her blind and didn't pay any of her bills despite taking the money from the account. Nor did they register the LPA with the elderly persons bank. LPA was also taken out 2 years after elderly person had lost her mental capacity and was in a dementia care home. According to bank statements, whilst in dementia care home, which she never left, said elderly woman was buying designer clothes at Urban Outfitters, eating meals at nice restaurants, attending concerts and buying petrol for her car (elderly person never drove) and was having supermarket food deliveries delivered to a house 60 miles away where the holder of the LPA lived in a fully catered secure dementia care home..

Tried reporting to the Office of Public Guardian as the LPA should never have been allowed but as the elderly person is dead, their powers have lapsed.

Person who had the LPA entrusted cannot account for the whereabouts of the money, we are talking enough to buy a small house. There wasn't even any money to bury the person person in the estate (but before you ask the money came from elsewhere and she had a lovely funeral).

Would it be reasonable to report it to the Police or unreasonable to do so?

The difference being from the sound of it, is that my victim is dead, it sounds like the TV programme was about a living person being defrauded as their social worker reported it. Social services will not cooperate with me - they say they are not allowed to for GDPR but can talk to the Police.

Its almost as if, because the elderly person is dead, its of no concern to anyone but its so wrong.

Because as the executor, it takes months to extract the information you need from everyone and when you are about to report a family member to the police and rip your family apart, you need to be pretty confident that you are making a founded allegation.

Plus the more supporting evidence I could get about what transpired, the more chance I have of the Police taking action. Sometimes you have to play the long game to get the right results.

With a an ATM card and pin, both of which were sent to the elderly persons empty home AFTER they were in the care home. The bank were not aware of the LPA or that elderly person was in a dementia care home and so will take no responsibility for the missing monies.

I chose to confide in someone and there reaction very much surprised me and had me doubting myself and they are pretty grounded. They read the evidence and acknowledged it was clear what our family member had done, but ultimately they said that family loyalties dictate I don't report it to the police as the harm it does to this persons family will be devastating for them.

Criminals’ actions often have devastating effects on their families if they get caught. That’s not a reason to let them rob old people with impunity. I’m surprised by your relative’s response — unless s/he benefited too.

This wasn’t a ‘moment of madness’ or driven by desperate need, but a long series of premeditated thefts for luxuries.

And this is the response I expect but I need to do it anyway.

They wouldn't but they should have noticed the sudden and dramatic change in spending habits - but they accept no responsibility for this.

Right, I see. Although “I didn’t realise my relative’s entire fortune was pissed away by persons unknown because I CBA to register the LPA” is a pretty poor defence of ‘acting in their best interests’.

If the LPA was needed for the house sale, surely the attorney had to liaise with the bank at that point? Was it a different bank?

Indeed, they will, but I think I have that one covered.

When I submitted the Probate docs, it asks if there are any gifts of £3000 or more per year in the last seven years. As I was not on the scene and said family member was managing the finances, I asked them the question by email and the response that there hadn't been any that they were aware of. So if it wasn't gifted (as in "I was told to treat my family) and they can't account for its whereabouts, then where is it? Given the amounts of cash that have gone it would have to be some pretty hefty gifting.

Also when the spending on the bank acct suddenly changed, large purchases were made, using Paypal (funded by elderly persons bank acct) and guest checkout, for delivery to family members home and using their email address. But apparently there were no large gifts made!!!! Sort of shot themselves in the foot I think. Clever but not clever enough.

In the council area concerned, you do not have to pay council tax if you have dementia, the family member personally reported the elderly persons dementia to the LA prior to them going in the care home and then the family member arranged payment of carehome fees by the council (as elderly person was to capable of handling it). When the fees were not being paid there is a long list of letters that were going to the family members own home address on how the arrears were to be addressed and arrangements were made between them. LA would not give me copies of said letters due to GDPR but would give me a list of when they were sent but will provide it to the police if requested. LA seem interested in pursing this if the Police do not. But monthly fees were frequently unpaid.

I also have an email from family member saying they were withdrawing cash to pay the care home fees, and that they are terrible at keeping records. But why would they need to do this when they have an LPA they can present to the bank and which they can set up DD's from.
And surely given the LPA was in place, they had a legal responsibility to ack in the best interest of the elderly person and not themselves?

Absolutely not, misguided but never dishonest. I think they were worried about the toll it would take on me (given I have been ill), how I would fund it and how the accused would react and try rally support but also concerned for the young family of the person concerned.

You can change your vote, just click again on the one you intended to.

The house had not sold prior to death so the bank were not involved and the debt owed was not to the bank.

In the meantime, muggins here has been left to pay for probate, death certs etc

Over everything else (and I would report them for what they did even without this) I would report it because of the care home fees not being paid.

This 'person' placed their own greed and urge to steal above the fact that this was an elderly vulnerable person who needed 24 hour care. Should the person who needed the care have been in a home that weren't as kind as to let the fees slide for a while (the home my grandfather in got twitchy of you were more than a fortnight behind in paying them) then they could have found themselves turfed their home and away from the carers they might have built a raport with and into another where they might not have been treated the same way and a situation which could have hastened their death.

They also didn't care about this person having a dignified departure from the world and they were only able to receive a funeral on the kindness of others paying for it and organising a way to fund it.

As well as that they knowingly committed fraud to get that far as the person didn't have capacity to agree for them to be their POA for finances.

It shows that 100 percent of the time the thief had nefarious plans to get hold of their relatives cash. At no point did they go into this with good intentions.

OP, think about going to the media about this issue.
You have done so much leg work for them it could be of huge interest.
This is such a huge issue with so many families too embarrassed that one of tgeir own would do it.

It has happened in the family of a friend of mine. Her BIL was withdrawing thousands from his mothers account.
He has been completely shunned by they entire family who were devastated but they don't want to go to the police.
Too ashamed to publicise it.

The fact that the increase in spending and type of places it was used for should have triggered some of the fraud monitoring. Over the years we've had phone calls for things that have looked out of the ordinary or to places we've never made payments to before.

It makes me think that the bank might have made contact with the family member, especially if they had a phone number for the house and not the care home, as they didn't know she had moved. Also it's possible for the elderly person to have written down the sensitive information about the bank, due to having memory issues. If the family member knew enough details, they could have misled the bank as to their identity.

My DM was carrying around a piece of paper with all the pin numbers for her cards, because she couldn't remember them. I was horrified when I was visiting and saw her take out the card at the checkout and then refer to the paper, in front of the cashier and everyone else in the queue! 😱

Older people can be less aware of the scams and rely on the people who they trust to do things for them. They can be easily convinced to disclose things that they shouldn't because they think it's safer to do so, to get what they need done and "it's family".

Re: GDPR

I’d query that a bit further with the LA because normally information relating to a deceased person does not constitute personal data and therefore is not subject to the UK GDPR.

Plus in addition, the Access to Health Records Act 1990 gives a right of access to health records of the deceased to either the personal representatives or to the persons who may have a claim arising out of the death of the individual.

What a nightmare. I think this probably happens more often than we think. Hoping your complaint is taken seriously.

I think it’s worse before it’s a family member!

I know it doesn’t actually make a difference but the fact this person is family means you would think they wouldn’t feel a love and connection to this person’s and therefore should be less likely to betray them so horribly.

@RockOrAHardplace id be interested to see if police are interested. In my situation my step mother robbed my dads bank of thousands it’ all went through the opg they gave her the all clear but it transpired after he died the things that she has told the opg the money had gone on was simply not true and she paid allegedly for his funeral twice she conned the OPG like my dad. She left my dad virtually penniless. I think in part she got away with it drawing large sums out because she was his wife but it’s obvious what she was doing. Now we are executors to his will and wd can’t do probate as she refuses to say where the money has gone. I would have liked of reported her to the police but did not think they would take any notice ? Good luck

Please do report it to the police. Such blatant fraud. The relationship makes it worse.

Thank goodness this person, even after their death, has you to look after their affairs. Please do report this just incase the relative has access to any other people and their money.
When you report, for clarity, you do not ‘have capacity’ or not. Capacity is decision (and time) specific. So while there may be specific evidence the elderly person was not able to make informed financial decisions at the time the LPA was drawn up they may have been able to decide on living arrangements and nutrition (or not, depends on assessment). Best to use the term ‘evidence that X did not have capacity ti manage financial affairs/decisions …’

@RockOrAHardplace GDPR does not exist when a person is deceased ( I work in social care) you can apply as executor for access to records around finances to social care via the access to records if you Google your authority

@RockOrAHardplace no, stealing is stealing and worse, they were in a position of trust

As an executor, I don't think you have an option of not reporting it.

If a solicitor was administering the estate, they would be questioning it the same way and would have to report it.

If nothing else, it will shut down their opportunity to take advantage of other relatives in the same manner.