Is this feminism?

[username299]

I've just read about a 23 year old who comes from a wealthy background and plans to sleep with 1,000 men in 24 hrs.

In the article*, she calls herself a feminist and says she feels empowered.

I don't understand why this woman wants to do this. I can obviously understand the financial aspect but she talks about the event taking place in a warehouse with men coming in one door and leaving out the other.

I'm obviously behind the times because when I was that age, women didn't aspire to live stream themselves having sex with countless men.

I'm wondering what the hell has happened for women to choose to do this and think it's empowering. These women have the support of their families which I also don't understand.

*Daily Heil

I didn't say that I have a right to gatekeep feminism. I said that feminism is an ideology and a defined movement.

I clearly said earlier that it was feminist to support sex workers.

So you do understand that this woman is a feminist, even though she is doing an unfeminist thing in this instance @username299?

What good did she do for other women so far ? Apart for teaching them to have sex with 1000 men in 24 hours

No I don't. I don't agree with you that the sexual objectification and exploitation of women is feminist.

Many women are forced into sex work through poverty, drug addiction, domestic abuse and human trafficking. Sex work takes away a woman's choice as she often cannot refuse a client due to her vulnerability.

Sex work endangers women and women often suffer mental ill health and trauma. Women involved in sex work are often sexually assaulted and abused.

I find it difficult to believe that anyone who proports to care about the welfare of women would encourage them into sex work or consider it feminist.

Well it’s the oldest profession and all that…it’s a way to earn money fairly quickly I assume. It is not my idea of feminist empowerment, but if it’s something that is done purely out of choice then arguably that is my idea of feminism. But then you get into the murky minefield of ‘is it actually a choice when it’s just millennia of sexism and subjugation of women?’

What her friend do is not feminism but prostitution

Be honest OP, your post has nothing to do with feminism. You just want to impose your views on sex work onto everyone else.

For any woman (or man) that is offering sex for sale to feed a habit or keep a roof over their head, then these people need help. I'd suggest more facilities for substance abusers.

For a woman who makes the choice that sex work will give a far better standard of living than what she would make in a job she has the skills for, eg hospitality. None of us have any right to say she is wrong.

The oft claimed statement that all sex workers are controlled, on drugs, raped regularly is simply untrue.

Of course is untrue and many women chooses by themselves to be prostitutes but don't call this feminism because it is not

No I don't. I don't agree with you that the sexual objectification and exploitation of women is feminist.

I haven't said anything like that for you to disagree with @username299 .

I don't consider sex work feminist. I know that sex workers can be feminists.

It may not fit your definition of feminism, but it may well fit hers. Providing she is doing it with capacity it can be what she believes it is.

Now if we look at a guy being able to boast he has had sex with a thousand women, to many other men he would be a hero. When this woman is doing the same, she is getting slated by mostly women. Surely feminism is equality of the sexes.

Feminism is fighting for women rights. I ask what she did good for women apart from having sex with 1000 men?

And women just like men have the right to have sex with as many partners as they choose. How often do we hear a woman called derogatory names for having a number of sexual partners. Sadly often by other women as well as men.

You're completely incorrect. It's a fact that many women who get involved in sex work have been raped or sexually abused as children.

Sex work is often not a choice but something a women is forced to do through circumstances. Those circumstances could be drug addiction, trafficking or domestic abuse and it often involves violence and abuse.

I didn't say that sex work was wrong, I said it's not feminism. I already said that sex workers need support and help to remain safe.

And a great many women go into sex work eyes wide open with no hang ups whatsoever.

Do I sad they have no rights? Of course they have rights, but this is not feminism

I'd like to see the evidence for that. Including evidence that they suffer absolutely no violence, coercion or mental ill health due to their experience.

If the definition of feminism is basically a woman can do what a man can with no inpediment, Then what in this case is not feminist about it?

In fact the anti femism in this case is posters like you, saying she shouldn't have autonomy over her own actions.

I already said that sex workers need support and help to remain safe.

How do you think this thread is helping the woman in your article or any other sex worker @username299?

I see you are doubling down.
You didn’t answer whether your husband and his friends wear heels on a boys night out?
It’s absolutely your intrinsic choice and you are not swayed by society’s expectations then?

You’re not very convincing I’m afraid

This doesn't sound physically possible?

Also, what if some of the men can't perform?

But ‘having sex’ is a very different thing for women amd men. The language is very much based upon what a man is doing TO a woman. Therefore a woman can not do what a man can do whether it’s with it without impediment.

What is the common assumption for the definition of having sex? Most people will associate sexual Intercourse with a penis entering a vagina and most likely ejaculating.
The woman is not penetrating the man and this is a very important difference.

A woman allowing 1000 men to penetrate her within 24 hours does not have a male equivalent. What would the closest equivalent be? A man having 1000 women queue up to do what TO him? Sit on his face? Would that ever happen?

Additionally, feminism is not about doing anything a man does without impediment. Would a woman sexually harassing other women be a feminist action? Would a woman blocking other women from board positions be a feminist move?

Sexism is so entrenched that people really believe the act of sexual intercourse is an identical act for both man and women, it is definitely not.

In turn, I'll ask you how a woman who chooses to partake in an industry that has such a negative impact on other women's lives, can be a feminist.

You cannot separate an individual from their behaviour and the consequences of their actions. You seem to think that irrespective of what a woman does, she can call herself a feminist, even if she is actively harming women.

Sex work is inherently damaging to women and maintains systemic patterns of male domination and control. It dehumanise women and encourages society to treat women like sexual objects. It is exploitative.

For many women, sex work is not a choice and it can be argued that within a system of oppression, women's choices are finite.

Feminism is not about feeling personally empowered within an oppressive framework. Some choices a woman makes can reinforce harmful ideas of women as a group and about their bodies.

Women cannot have true liberation within an oppressive structure. True freedom of choice comes from ending oppressive systems, not manipulating them for your own gain or compounding them.

@Zestylemo an excellent point about the language you use.

I started a thread a while ago about someone called Lily Phillips doing the same type of thing and she referred to sex as "being ran through by x amount of men"

I hand t heard that phrase before but the passive voice and the way she said it just made me despair.

I didn't answer your rhetorical question because it is a ridiculous one. Much like your comparison of body modifications to high heels.

Of course my husband doesn't wear high heels on a night out. I also don't wear a tie to work. Your point being? I think we are all aware that some clothing items are typically gendered, it doesn't mean either sex have to wear them though. Isn't it rather sexist I can wear trousers yet if my husband wore a skirt he'd be mocked.... it goes both ways.

Yes it absolutely is my choice to wear what I want to wear. I pointed out to you that trainers have become fashionable for nightwear, so your theory about expectations holds little weight. How people dress is defined more by how they feel comfortable and what is trendy at the time.

Frankly, I don't particularly care whether you're convinced or not. Telling another adult that they don't know their own mind and that you know my reasonings better than I do is the height of arrogance.