Is this feminism?

[username299]

I've just read about a 23 year old who comes from a wealthy background and plans to sleep with 1,000 men in 24 hrs.

In the article*, she calls herself a feminist and says she feels empowered.

I don't understand why this woman wants to do this. I can obviously understand the financial aspect but she talks about the event taking place in a warehouse with men coming in one door and leaving out the other.

I'm obviously behind the times because when I was that age, women didn't aspire to live stream themselves having sex with countless men.

I'm wondering what the hell has happened for women to choose to do this and think it's empowering. These women have the support of their families which I also don't understand.

*Daily Heil

This is like asking "is opening a tin of beans feminism".

It is no more, no less, a feminism act because the person doing it claims to be a feminist.

Unless, of course, women are banned from opeing tins of beans because of their sex in the social context in which the woman opening the tin is living.

Her only gain is fame and ok, the cash that it brings, but in terms of true gain, what is it? Where is the sexual satisfaction? 1000 men and all of their different body odours, some will be unwashed perhaps with bad hygiene, possible infections - she'll face probable injury on any given level and her genital area will be massively affected, not to even mention her cervix if these men - all 1000 of them - are porn addled and determined to ejaculate.

Fame aside (and what does that even mean?), she must have some complex emotional devices set in place to cope with what she's about to do and it is highly questionable that these strategies are developed from a normal, healthy development. I feel badly for her and want to scream at any adult who thinks this is feminism, or 'ok because it's HER choice'. It's a fucking illness but because people are aroused by it or sexually curious about it, it's 'ok'.

This is the 2nd case I've heard about and I'm despairing at how depraved humanity is becoming.

These men have wives, mothers, sisters, daughters.

I hear your optimism, but why do we have to give the benefit of the doubt in my thought experiment when the realities of the world we live in point to the fact that we frequently don't give enough doubt, to the detriment of women and girls worldwide?

How unlike the home life of our late dear Queen.

I don't like the constant defining what is or isn't feminism. All the angst and debate is tedious at best.

I guess that LP is using this stunt to promote her brand & make a lot of money.

I'm left wondering if sex workers ever take pride in their work. It seems to me like any job should have opportunity for dignity & satisfaction, can sex workers ever feel that. I bet Stormy Daniels finds artistic expression in her job, for instance (and lots of money). So maybe some kinds of sex workers can find the dignity & satisfaction. It doesn't have to be only about fame & money. Or maybe money leads to satisfaction for many. It's a gig.

Human beings do strange things, for sure.

No problem 👌

Respectfully, I don't think you can compare the actual breaking of a child's bones causing lifelong agonising disability, to and adult wearing some heels on occasion, which can be taken off at any point. I have absolutely no issues with my feet from chucking on stilettos maybe once a month for a girls day out.

The examples of body modification you have provide are indeed were/are about female subordination. Difference being they were/are permanent changes that affect the way women live/lived their lives, foot binding in particular effectively making the woman housebound.

Body modifications are not exclusive to women though. There are many African and South American cultures who practise excruciating coming of age rituals on boys.

We are going down a rabbit hole here but we do not live in a society where such things things can be legally enforced upon us in the same way as other countries. I don't disagree with you about society viewing men and woman differently that is without a doubt, but I do disagree that every choice a woman makes can be related back to the patriarchy. There isn't always an underlying reason.

E.g. I just happen to like accessories in the same way I happen to like wine.

These women aren't in it for sexual gratification, that is the point of my comment. Bonnie Blue made 250,000 AUD for sleeping with 122 men over 3 weeks. She had a seemingly normal upbringing by all accounts.

How do you know these men have wives?

Eewww. No. She has serious issues and/or is willing to do anything to get public attention.

Not much sleeping. She'll just have to get into position and line them up. I hope she's got the ice bath ready for after.

Because the male comments I have heard and seen on this topic have been of disgust. Look at any online forum or comment section on various social media platforms, the overwhelming majority condemn this behaviour. If the majority of men agreed with this debauchery society would literally be falling apart around us.

To me the definition of feminism is as a female owning the right to your feminine power and that could be explored through the individual experience.
What she is doing is certainly expressing her power to choose what to do with her own body.
So maybe it is feminism as an expression of exploration of self as a woman.
At least in the moments of doing it.
Funny thing is that maybe we won’t know until a few years down the line how what she’s doing has affected her long term and whether it brings her power or pain.
I guess the risk she’s taking in that is feminism.

But definitions are important: if you don't have some definition the word "feminism" is completely meaningless.

If I've spent my life accumulating wealth working in hedge funds and buying and selling properties in Mayfair I can't suddenly call myself a "socialist" because I like the sound of the word. No one would take that seriously, and rightly so.

But for some reason if a woman who wants to shag 1,000 men with no consideration for her own health or wellbeing, or indeed a woman who has spent 40 years being supported exclusively by her husband, decides to say she is making a "feminist choice" somehow this is all waved through without question.

There are many ways to be a feminist, for sure. Sex workers and lifelong housewives can be feminists. But at the very least I think you have to act in alignment with values which benefit women as a class (as opposed to just benefiting yourself financially) to call yourself a feminist. Otherwise why bother having a word? You might just as well call yourself someone who makes a lot of money.

I'm obviously behind the times because when I was that age, women didn't aspire to live stream themselves having sex with countless men.
I'm sure that I remember a similar cunning stunt being featured on Eurotrash about 30 years ago. We saw pictures of the men lining up, in a queue snaking around a school gymnasium, for their turn. It was deeply unsexy.

Society is literally falling apart around us in many ways. I think you're resting a lot of optimism on Not All Men, and of course it isn't all men, but to use it as some kind of defense for the men that would willingly participate is misguided. Not all men but certainly enough men, and probably many more men than we (you) would want to believe.

We shouldn't be blindly trusting and naively bestowing the benefit of doubt across the board. It puts us at risk. Look at domestic and sexual abuse stats. We need to be realistically cautious, and if unsure err on the side of pessimism rather than optimism for our own safety.

Every generation has had a belief that society is falling apart in one way or another, but that is a whole other topic, with a hundred different arguments. The reality is there has never been a better time to be a woman in Western society, that is not to say being a woman doesn't come with drawbacks.

I haven't used a 'not all men' argument as a defence to the men who took part. There is no defending that. I've simply pointed out that there is no way of knowing the true numbers but I feel it would not be as many as others might think. I explained why.

I'm not 'blindly trusting' judging from the negative reactions I've seen on various platforms and the fact this type of thing is fairly rare in occurrence, hence the news coverage, it would suggest that most people are relatively 'normal' because if they were not, we would be living in a version of Mad Max.

Domestic abuse stats as shocking as they are, actually support the idea that the majority of men are not raging psychopaths when you take into account the figures vs the population. There are cultural and class differences amongst all of that too. Again, that is one for another thread.

There’s been loads of threads analysing this woman to death.

She is in the porn industry. Everything she does is porn. It requires no more analysis than that.

Porn is never feminist in my view. Not even the stuff that says it’s ‘feminist porn’. Because for me feminism is about liberating women from patriarchy, not some guff about ‘choices’. Porn is patriarchy.

Couldn’t agree more.
All of this “empowerment” and “own choice” shite is under the umbrella of patriarchy.
I see nothing feminist in this sorry tale.

@DownThePubWithStevieNicks Yet some women enjoy porn too.

It’s her body and her choice. It’s really not anyone else’s business. At least she is doing what she choses to do and not stuck in a dreary 9-5 and making great money. Yes it’s feminist as feminism is principally about equal rights. Well, she’s doing as she choses. Whether you agree, consider it dignified or not etc etc is a different question.

No, it isn't, its liberalism.

“Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy on behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore. It doesn't matter who the individual women are. They all have the same vulnerability to rape, to battery, as children to incest.
Poorer women have more vulnerability to prostitution, which is basically a form of sexual exploitation that is intolerable in an egalitarian society, which is the society we are fighting for.”
Andrea Dworkin

The only question you need to ask in any of these dilemmas is “would a fully empowered man do the equivalent?” (And by equivalent I don’t mean sexual because given the hormonal drive of male sexuality they jolly well might, but equivalent in terms of humiliation and personal cost). No they would not.

Yes, women (including me!) do anti-feminist and pro-patriarchy things all the time. Bikini waxes, giving up careers, excusing poor behaviour from partners and sons.

Porn and prostitution doesn’t become feminist just because a woman is viewing it, or participating in it.

"Patriarchy is like a man, having his boot on a woman's neck.
Feminism is a woman complaining about the boot.
Conservatives insist there wasn't a problem with the boot being on the neck until the woman started talking about it. If she would just be quiet about the boot, there wouldn't be a problem.
Male allies think there's a way to talk about the boot being on the neck that appeals to everyone and doesn't "alienate" those that would help remove the boot.
"Good Guys" insist that not all men wear boots.
Women with internalized misogyny insist they have a boot on their neck by choice and they love it! They insist something is wrong with women complaining about the boot.
The boot is never removed from the neck."

• LeAndra Lee Baker -

I don't view porn as either feminist or patriarchal. Sex and sexuality is innate IMO and pornography is just an expression of the plethora of desires people have.

Are the women in porn just expressing their plethora of desires?

Sex is innate. Porn is the patriarchal commodification of that, almost always at the expense of the women who are brutalised and spat out.