Reform and abortion

[Craftymam]

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low.

Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights.

Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

I admit that was stupid

ah… see what you’re doing now.

❤️

What I do now? I still.think all women have free choice

I am pro abortion even after suffering my own loss at 20 weeks - my baby girl was perfectly formed at 20 weeks but unfortunately was very poorly and I know some women whose babies are born breathing from 18 weeks. So I personally feel that 24 weeks is too far gone in a pregnancy. Unless it’s for medical reasons then that is different all together.

i Would say most pro abortion people wouldn’t want to see someone abort a baby after 15 weeks at least.

This is astonishing.

No, we should not be able to abort past 24 weeks. You can't pretend that is a result of outdated laws - no country in Europe allows abortion at any point during pregnancy.

If access to abortion is restricted it would still be difficult to stop women obtaining birth control and the morning after pill through the postal system.
Women could to some extent mitigate the extra controls on them by organizing amongst themselves.

Women with an unwanted pregnancy don't wait that long. Most do it before 12 weeks.

In UK is hard to obtain contraception or after pill?

1% of abortions in the UK are performed after 20 weeks. 89% before 10 weeks. I can’t find the stats on why those late abortions took place but I can imagine a fair amount of those were for medical reasons. Not sure there is much to discuss… sure you could bring the legal limit down to 22 weeks but if that still allowed for abortions after that gestation for medical reasons the stats probably won’t change. I think we need to change the narrative of women changing their minds at 20+ weeks or not being arsed to do anything before then… vanishingly rare.

You aren't going to find one, but that's not the gotcha you are seeking.

If baby is healthy but the pregnancy needs to end for mums health then that would be an early delivery not abortion in the UK.

If baby and mum is healthy then it's illegal to abort so if course you won't hear of women doing it. People rarely talk openly about crimes they have committed, especially where they could still be prosecuted and jailed. Don't assume that no one would do it just because they are currently prohibited.

Ps: I'm a bit uncomfortable using 'healthy' here as many aborted on disability grounds are healthy. They aren't necessarily interchangeable. A deaf fetus could be aborted at 39w for example.

Don’t say there won’t be people doing this. I can’t speak to her motivations but it seemed this baby would have been inconvenient for her relationship

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-65882169.amp

Reform are not proposing it. He said it’d may be worthy of a discussion.
You hate Reform, we get it. Stop making this something out of nothing.
Look at exactly why abortion rates are climbing. Look at why women feel they need an abortion in the first place.
It’s not black and white. The only thing that is black and white is your obvious hatred for Reform.

Farage isn't stupid enough to shut the doors on abortion straight away, it will start with the lowering of abortion term. Say from 24 to 20 weeks, lots of moderate conservatives will agree with that as 24 weeks is borderline able to survive outside of the womb (even though hardly any fetuses are aborted this late and usually for serious complications). Then it will be 16 weeks, 12 weeks etc. Then they will make access harder and introduce things like abortion only due to rape, incest and disability.

Womens rights will be like frogs in a slowly boiling pot. Little chips here and there, when the new normal is established chip a bit more off etc.

Also it's a headline grabber, and he can make reducing abortion terms seem really reasonable so may win votes with conservative folk. And we will end up being like America where abortion is the only fucking thing discussed too, they don't really give a fuck either which way but it's a great emotive political football, which is also a lovely distraction from other policy.

And it's only the West who already can't sustain their own population who need to stop having babies? The countries where people are having more babies are exactly where we are importing people from.

Also - who says we need less people? The distribution of resources and wealth are the problem, not population size. The world's population would fit in the UK comfortably. There are many ways to live, perhaps the way of life people have come to expect isn't sustainable.

Me personally, I'd happily self sustain on a pittance and produce my own food and water, but legally it's very difficult with lots of red tape to do so without much money. Why? The world would be better of for it. We need to start asking more complex and deeper questions.

Fine, why does he deem it to be a "worthy discussion"?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5212170-to-think-the-tactics-of-cbr-uk-are-disgusting-trigger-warning-pro-life?page=1

This is a thread I started a few weeks ago.

I'm joining a few dots here.

The religious right in America have their grubby fingers in several pies, including abortion and the prophetic underpinnings of a particular ongoing conflict.

They are well funded and keen to impose their preferred worldview "because God", no matter how they try to dress it up.

Abortion gives women reproductive control, and we are living in very regressive times where women having any perceived control over pretty much anything is being painted as being responsible for nigh on all of society's present ills (Andrew Tate / Jordan Peterson / Elon Musk I'm looking at you - the unholy trinity of the "patriarchy".

Monsieur Farage wants to be a big cheese on the world stage, and if a few religious nutters ruffle his hair and let him smell the greenbacks, that's all that will matter - hang the collateral damage.

Mission creep from the US is strong here.

There's an interesting documentary called "Young, British and anti-abortion" that aired on BBC 1 recently - the younger generations are being captured via bloody TikTok and Instagram. It's a numbers game and if certain demographics with reasonable opinions aren't even aware of the debates due to lack of use of such platforms, we could be heading down the path of policy essentially formed by algorithm. Which us a whole other debate and why the scent of the Trump / Musk alliance is pretty poisonous.

Ironic that technology is possibly going to take us back to the Dark Ages on subjects like women's rights.

Most women who know that they not want the baby will terminate pregnancy in early weeks and will not wait until 20 weeks pregnant.

Well you all seem to be discussing it. He’s saying baby viability has changed. That babies survival rate at 24 weeks is not the same as it was.

There are a lot of women on here with varying opinions. Do you not deem their voices important enough to discuss because NF is a man?

Ok so what’s the point of making it legal then? You aren’t really making sense

What's the point of making it illegal? It's a medical decision. Doctors and patients are best suited to make the decision. The government should stay out of our uteri.

Have I said anything about NF being a man? Differing opinions are fine, erosion of choice is not.
Why does he think age of viability should change women's rights? The development of a 22 week foetus hasn't changed. The act of abortion hasn't changed. The only thing that would change is women's lives would made harder and more babies would be born to mothers who don't want them or can't care for them. Who would want that and why?

NO religious beliefs should be a reason to bring in laws that affect potentially ALL women.
Im sure we can all agree on that, regardless of political affiliation.
We are not America

Farage is a shit stirrer. Any discussion led by him or his supporters is likely to be controversial and unlikely to end well

Odious little man.