Page 7 | Reform and abortion

Craftymam · 2024-12-06T10:41:12+00:00

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low. Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights. Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:31

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 06/12/2024 12:51

It's relevant.

We live in a democracy. Laws are passed by politicians who are elected by the people.

I think you would struggle to find many people who would be OK with the termination of a healthy pregnancy at or close to full term. There's a reason for that.

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Name just one example of a woman terminating a health prenancy in the third trimester

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:31

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:25

@Julia34 That makes no sense. You are either for it or against it. There is no half way. You can be for it and not wanting to have it yourself and that would be fine, but being against abortion means that you take away other's women's options

It is make sense. I understand that everyone have freedom.of choice even if I not agree with that choice well is still freedom of choice of someone else. So if said my friend get pregnant and she want to have abortion I will say her not to do it but I can't force her not to do it so she will be making choice for herself. So in short I will never do abortiom on myself but I cannot force that on other women

Workhardcryharder · 06/12/2024 13:31

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:27

Sorry but I don't see your point. You appear to be arguing symantics over words we clearly know the meaning of. Are you just trying to derail the thread?

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I am pro choice, but can you not see your “abortion until term” stance is not well thought out?

What if the baby could survive without any assistance outside the womb? Would you just make sure you kill him/her beforehand? If so, what’s the difference between killing a 39 week baby in utero than just after they are born? Surely you can see that’s not as simple as you are trying to argue

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:32

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:31

It is make sense. I understand that everyone have freedom.of choice even if I not agree with that choice well is still freedom of choice of someone else. So if said my friend get pregnant and she want to have abortion I will say her not to do it but I can't force her not to do it so she will be making choice for herself. So in short I will never do abortiom on myself but I cannot force that on other women

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You can if they ban abortion altogether.

ByMerryKoala · 06/12/2024 13:33

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:31

Name just one example of a woman terminating a health prenancy in the third trimester

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I can't think of any. I don't know why you would mobilise to increase an unused theoretical limit when it risks decimating the current very high level of support.

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:34

Workhardcryharder · 06/12/2024 13:31

I am pro choice, but can you not see your “abortion until term” stance is not well thought out?

What if the baby could survive without any assistance outside the womb? Would you just make sure you kill him/her beforehand? If so, what’s the difference between killing a 39 week baby in utero than just after they are born? Surely you can see that’s not as simple as you are trying to argue

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Like many posters have pointed out, this doesn't happen with healthy, unwanted pregnancies. It's a straw man argument

TinklySnail · 06/12/2024 13:34

Have a look at the stats for abortion. 2017 it’s started climbing way up. I wonder why that it…

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 06/12/2024 13:34

MrRobinsonsQuango · 06/12/2024 10:42

Why is wanting to have a discussion?! He’s male so literallly nothing to do with him

@MrRobinsonsQuango , a child has two parents!

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:34

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:32

You can if they ban abortion altogether.

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Yes I know but I will not do it. I belive everyone have freedom of choice even if I not agree with that choice

ByMerryKoala · 06/12/2024 13:35

TinklySnail · 06/12/2024 13:34

Have a look at the stats for abortion. 2017 it’s started climbing way up. I wonder why that it…

It's exactly at the point when the two child policy for benefits kicked in.

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:35

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 06/12/2024 13:34

@MrRobinsonsQuango , a child has two parents!

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That true but many times the father go away

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:36

ByMerryKoala · 06/12/2024 13:33

I can't think of any. I don't know why you would mobilise to increase an unused theoretical limit when it risks decimating the current very high level of support.

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Of course you can't, because it doesn't happen. Late term abortions are for serious complications. These are wanted pregnancies. In many cases the couple will have already picked out names and decorated the baby room.

Then something does terribly wrong and they are forced to abort to avoid further complication and save the woman's life.

And you want to let these women die based on a straw man argument. It's heartless

dollybird · 06/12/2024 13:36

Wordsofprey · 06/12/2024 13:11

There are many ways to incentivise the native population to have children, stopping or further limiting abortion is a terrible "method".

However, I do believe people are a bit "hands over ears lalala" when it comes to discussing declining birth rates. We do need to be having more children to sustain the population. Simply importing people from elsewhere is a plaster over the real issue.

People feel they can't afford to have children, others have been convinced waiting until you've had an entire career and are past your natural fertility window is an opinion when actually it doesn't always work out, and now you need 2 wages to run a household and women are expected to work just as much as men and can struggle to figure out where having children fits into that.

If the government worked to fix the issues that are leading people to postpone or completely drop out of having and raising children, then we would see an increase in birthrate and we would be sustaining ourselves. I read a stat regarding serious issues arising in about 20-30 years time due to low birth rate. Well now would be a perfect time to incentivise with family orientated policies wouldn't it. I have a feeling the government won't make this a priority though.

It's a complex issue but we can't rely on immigration alone to sustain the population.

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The world needs less people not more.

TinklySnail · 06/12/2024 13:37

ByMerryKoala · 06/12/2024 13:35

It's exactly at the point when the two child policy for benefits kicked in.

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Exactly. This topic goes way deeper than when an abortion can happen

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 06/12/2024 13:37

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:35

That true but many times the father go away

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@Julia34 , also true but not all. My point is men have a right to a voice on this subject.

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:37

ByMerryKoala · 06/12/2024 13:35

It's exactly at the point when the two child policy for benefits kicked in.

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Yes some have kids for benefits when the government said no benefits from after more kids they do abortion

ByMerryKoala · 06/12/2024 13:38

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:36

Of course you can't, because it doesn't happen. Late term abortions are for serious complications. These are wanted pregnancies. In many cases the couple will have already picked out names and decorated the baby room.

Then something does terribly wrong and they are forced to abort to avoid further complication and save the woman's life.

And you want to let these women die based on a straw man argument. It's heartless

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What are you on about? Have you got me mixed up with someone else?

The status quo for abortion rights is spot in in my opinion.

Workhardcryharder · 06/12/2024 13:38

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:34

Like many posters have pointed out, this doesn't happen with healthy, unwanted pregnancies. It's a straw man argument

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I mean it’s absolutely not, given you said higher up in the thread a woman should NEVER have to go through with an unwanted pregnancy. That implies a woman should be able to abort a perfectly healthy baby.

Abortions are allowed for medical reasons well after 24 weeks if necessary, so what are you arguing for then if not for perfectly healthy babies to be aborted later?

dollybird · 06/12/2024 13:39

As an aside, on the 'Mohammed becomes top baby boy name' comment. My boss is called Mohammad and says often it is the first name, but the middle name is what they go by. He, his brother and dad all are Mohammad but go by their middle names.

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:39

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 06/12/2024 13:37

@Julia34 , also true but not all. My point is men have a right to a voice on this subject.

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Yes you right I just think about that. They have right too but only if they stay with mother and help with the baby if they wanna leave them then should not say nothing

TinklySnail · 06/12/2024 13:39

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:37

Yes some have kids for benefits when the government said no benefits from after more kids they do abortion

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A few yes, but also those work are working that may feel if anything happened they may not be able to care for said unborn baby. So they choose abortion.

TheLimeHedgehog · 06/12/2024 13:39

Craftymam · 06/12/2024 13:25

If reform win with a large majority in parliament and run a two line whip successfully then yes they could do anything they want.

Voters may or may not know about this risk to abortion rights and I am bringing it up so people are aware and can judge for themselves how much of a risk they think that is.

For me it’s too big of a risk. It’s a redline for me. I will never vote for a party who’s proposing this. I’m a firm believer that when someone is trying to show you who they are that you should listen. I have listened. I don’t like it. So I’m sharing. And when someone tells me they are going to vote reform this is the first thing I’m going to say to them with very stern eyebrows. Then atleast they can be informed in their decision making.

What this has to do with North Korea I have no idea. You’re being ridiculous quite frankly.

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There you go again with the unsubstantiated claims which are pretty ridiculous quite frankly too.

You have not taken a quote out of context from Nigel Farage answering a question about having a discussion and framed it as a party policy of Reform. Yet you have gone further to make it into a made up hypothetical situation that any of the parties could do with a two line whip with zero evidence.

Please you only pushing your political hatred of a party and NIgel by using a subject you think people on MN can rally around.

ByMerryKoala · 06/12/2024 13:39

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 13:37

Yes some have kids for benefits when the government said no benefits from after more kids they do abortion

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Get lost. People don't have children for benefits, people couldn't risk continuing pregnancies without a safety net.

Choosenandenough · 06/12/2024 13:40

Julia34 · 06/12/2024 12:49

I think that about abortions should only women discuss in their reproductive years not men or old grandmas who cannot be pregnant anymore. Personally I will not do abortion if I am pregnant but is everyone own choice what they gonna do with their bodies with all the consequences

Old grandmas who can’t get pregnant anymore? Fucking hell! I’m finally speechless.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 06/12/2024 13:40

HardenYourHeart · 06/12/2024 13:31

Name just one example of a woman terminating a health prenancy in the third trimester

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I can't, because it's illegal.