Reform and abortion

[Craftymam]

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low.

Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights.

Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

HBJKC

a woman carries all the risk of pregnancy and childbirth, faces the possible employment discrimination before and after birth and is still most likely to take the hit to her career from being primary carer

So yea - Baby daddy has contributed his sperm but until baby is here it's just business as usual.

For me, it's the woman's choice. It's great if both her and dad can agree but if they can't mum makes the final decision as it's impacting her most.

You think thirteen year olds only talk about sex with each other while roaming about at night?

Apologies H I got your username wrong

Many times the doctor said child will.be disabled but parents decide keep the baby and they born healthy and not all disability is bad. My cousin have mild problem with her foot when she walk she put one food differently but she is walking herself not need wheelchairs and not even crutches she walk slower that healthy kids but apart from that alk is ok so my auntie had abortion on table but she refuse. Same with other kids sometimes their disability is mild and thei women still got abortion

But that is a gamble that you take. You never know what is going to happen. It's the same with Down syndrome - you might have a child with Down syndrome who is capable of independent living with a little support, able to go to mainstream school, able to live a long happy life. That child is still extremely likely to develop dementia in their 40s and 50s. However, you might also have a child with Down syndrome who is never continent, never learns speech, never able to interact socially, constantly in hospital because of serious heart defects. And has the same dementia risk. You don't know what you're going to get.

It's because of that uncertainty that the woman, the one who will end up doing the bulk of the caring, is the one who is given the choice of taking that risk - or not. Because no woman should be forced to carry through something like scenario 2 when she is not fully ready and willing to do that.

I think she thinks young girls only get predated on when it's dark and they are outside. Which presumably means she thinks girls are safe in the summer time at 9pm but not immediately after school in the winter.

I expect she also thinks that girls and young women wearing short skirts are responsible for their own rape.

Yes but this going both ways women can born disabled child who is hard to look after but she can got abortion on child with mild disability. Many babies was aborted unnecessary. I know 3 families have kids with down syndrome and the kids are lovely and so kind. They will live shorter that healthy person but the parents had not big problems with them

If worked with a colleague on a NICU ward and they felt the babies should be allowed to pass away instead of being saved and felt guilt about it saving them I’d report it as it’s a conflict of interest - and possibly a dangerous one

///

Woah. Exactly what are you implying here?!

Julia, wherw are you from?
I do wonder if there is some backed to the opinions amd communicating them

I have read the thread thank you, perhaps you could try not to be so dishonest.

The poster you are referring to was talking about their experience of the invasive medical interventions required to try to save very premature babies, not babies who happen to be born with disabilities. Disabilities have only entered the discussion because you claimed most premature babies went on to lead normal lives and posters have corrected your misinformation.

The discussion about reducing the abortion limit from 24 to 22 weeks depends entirely on solid evidence for high survival rates at 22 weeks, it is about viability.

You will also note from that link that it’s impossible to tell the outcome before an attempt has been made.

I'm not sure what you even mean by this, nearly every abortion which takes place after 20 weeks is done on statutory ground E.

Just because you repeat this like a mantra doesn't make it right or acceptable. Of course a healthy baby capable of survival outside the womb shouldn't be aborted. When babies of 22 weeks can survive then common sense would say it's too late for abortion.

Yes this true after 22 weeks pregnancy is even counted as pregnancy when baby have chance to survive if the premature birth occur. I can't imagine abort baby at this stage

@J@Julia34 it is young girls who grow up with your kind of archaic views who end up concealing pregnancies until it’s too late. Who end up running away from home because of the shame they’ve brought on their families. Who end up abandoning their newborn babies in parks, toilets, shopping centres, after having given birth alone with no medical intervention.

By not teaching her about sex, not letting her out of the house other than to go to school you’re not protecting her, you’re setting her up to get involved in perfectly normal behaviours but which she isn’t equipped for.

Go and read up on the adoption scandals in the 60’s, how young girls were shipped off to convents and their babies removed at birth because their families were so ashamed of the fact that they’d <gasp> had sex when they’d been brought up to be good little girls.

It’s because of people like you that the law has been changed to enable under 16’s to access abortion without their parents’ knowledge. But I don’t imagine you knew that, what with the fact your daughter isn’t ever going to know about sex.

At 11 you still have a level of control. But if you think that you can control a 13, 15, 18 year old to that degree you’re delusional.

I went to school in a different country, which was run by a church where these kinds of views prevailed.

Sex before marriage was a sin. Even holding hands could mean you were so overcome by lust that you wouldn’t be able to stop yourselves from falling into one another, so best not be physical at all.

And no need to talk about contraception, as you’re not going to be having sex you won’t need to know about contraception since you won’t be using it.

Can you guess what happened? Many of them ended up having sex anyway, and falling pregnant, because they knew nothing about contraception. Many of them ended up giving up their babies for adoption, all done in secret, they were pregnant, then sort of went off sick for a few months while nobody knew what was wrong with them, except kids talk, and they have friends, and of course everyone knew that the reason young Karen or Marie or Elusna (genuine names btw) were off sick for six months was because they were off having a baby.

A friend of mine got his girlfriend pregnant and she actually decided to keep the baby. As for him, we weren’t allowed to talk to him, because apparently talking to someone who had got a girl pregnant was a risk.

Fortunately my own family aren’t that outdated, and I refused to concede to any rule which told me not to speak to one of my friends.

It isn't going both ways at all. Your friends were the lucky ones. They made the choice and got lucky that their child with Down Syndrome was one of the ones with a more benign manifestation of the condition. The point is that many women are not that lucky - and so they should be made aware at the point of diagnosis what the possibilities are and then have the option of not proceeding with the pregnancy if they don't want to take the gamble.

You cannot describe an abortion as 'unnecessary', because in advance of that abortion happening, it's impossible to know. And if a woman feels she cannot take on a child with very high needs - for whatever reason, said reasons also to include any children she may already have - then that should be 100% up to her. This is why my stance is called 'pro choice'.

@NotOneOfTheInCrowd and by contrast, I grew up in the Netherlands and had outstanding sex education, reinforced at home by open discussion with my parents. Guess how many girls in my graduating year at secondary got pregnant?

That's right. 0.

Whatever you will said I still think that teaching kids under the age of 13 about sex is to early, because kids(both genders) age under 13 should NEVER have sex and if their parents think is cute for their 12 years old daughter have 15 or 16 years old boyfriend they are not right in head

Please provide source/evidence of him saying this

But what are you proposing happens if a woman of 22 weeks gestation wants to terminate? Deliver the fetus at that point or force her to continue being pregnant?

If women not want baby I don't think so she will wait until late pregnancy to have abortion

What about if it’s disabled or the mother’s life is in jeopardy?

This is absolutely true. So there is no need to move the limit - because women carrying a healthy pregnancy will not abort as late as that. Late term abortions are almost exclusively for serious foetal abnormalities, often incompatible with life. I have a friend who had a termination at 26 weeks due to such a condition. She was disgnosed very late because of NHS delays. Her other option would have been to carry to term and then watch her much wanted and loved baby die. This is why UK law needs to stay exactly as it is.

Then is diffrent sytuation but I think doctors can often see disabilities earlier in pregnacy. But not when women is healthy baby healthy and then women decide "oh 24 weeks pregnant let's do abortion"

How many times do you need to be told? Nobody does that.

A woman. 25 weeks pregnant can't have termination unless there are very serious health issues. I'd say that limit should be lowered to ideally 20 weeks.

Why?