Reform and abortion

[Craftymam]

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low.

Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights.

Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

I think you’ll find the term is “children with Down’s syndrome”. HTH

Even Muslim migrants who are fleeing to escape radical Islamists? A high proportion of the victims of Muslim extremists are themselves Muslims,

On American right-wing evangelicals, the extremely influential (now late) Reverend Jerry Falwell said after 9-11 on his television program “The 700 Club” that “I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way—all of them who have tried to secularize America—I point the finger in their face and say, ‘You helped this happen.'” I.e. that God was punishing America for support of secularism, women's rights and gay rights by not protecting them from terrorism.

There is a significant proportion of religious right-wingers in America who hold these views. Fewer in the UK, but they exist.

I’m sorry for your loss. I’m not sure I’d want them to intervene so early either . I’d be really worried about long term health problems and learning disabilities.

I have a family member who has experienced similar - in that they’ve resuscitated someone they later felt should have been allowed to pass owing to the brain damage and quality of life, plus the impact on the family in now having to care for them and the prospect of their future. I know the issues is you don’t really know what the longterm prognosis is until it’s too late and when you’re dealing with someone in resus you haven’t got time to balance up the pros and cons.

You’ve got to be very naive not to realise sometimes death is kinder than life.

That's wild though. Full-time as in 40 weeks? How's it any different from killing a new born?

What is naive? If someone teen daughter wake up, goes school and back home from school and stay home she got 0% chance to get pregnant as I not think she will had sex at school. But I see on my own eyes kids young as 8 and 10 roaming outside without parents and lots teenagers even in the evening hours so no suprise there are unwanted teen pregnancies

So your solution is to lock young people up until they're 18? I can't even...

Not lock and not until 18 but to let go outside very young kids alone is just stupid. My daughter is 11 and she not going out alone apart to school. To many tragedies occurs in UK I rather wait but longer to give her more freedom to roaming out in big city after school especially when in winter time is dark outside so fast

My kids were walking to school and back independently from age 9. They were allowed to spend time with friends and walk there and back. They were allowed to travel to our nearby time by bus and back from about 12 - 13. Amazingly they didn't get pregnant and nothing happened - because I educated them about sex, risk and everything else. Keeping your kids wrapped in cotton wool and ignorant doesn't equip them for adulthood.

I note you completely ignored the points I made earlier about the relationship between early and comprehensive sex education and low rates of unwanted pregnancy and abortion. I wonder why you don't want to accept facts.

From the article:

In one study of 241 children born before 26 weeks' gestation the following was found (9):

22% had severe disability (e.g. cerebral palsy and not walking, low cognitive scores, blindness, profound deafness)
24% had moderate disability (e.g. cerebral palsy and walking, IQ/cognitive scores in the special needs range, lesser degree of visual or hearing impairment)
34% had mild disability (defined as low IQ/cognitive score, squint, requiring glasses)
20% had no problems

Note that these are figures for babies born before 26 weeks, we do not know how many of those were born before 24 weeks. If you are so familiar with prenatal ultrasounds then surely you know there is a huge difference between a 23 and 26 week foetus.

The value of the lives of children born with disabilities is not part of this conversation but you have emotively dragged them into it.

We are discussing the relationship between viability and abortion laws.

That good for you I don't know any child get pregnant young as 9, but the risk incrase with age. And every child is diffrent. To many tragedies in UK happen like stabbings, road accidents, kidnapping etc not only is about unwanted pregnancy. The fact your kids are safe is matter of luck

The fact your kids are safe is matter of luck

Luck always plays a part. But it is also a matter of education, of managing risk, of gradually increasing independence - and that includes talking frankly about sex. Still not addressing the link between good sex education and low rates of unwanted pregnancy and abortion then?

I understand but if there is a immediate danger the kids may panic and not think straigh to get help. I sure many kids who dies from stabbing etc was told how to behave outside yet when bad things happen unspected is hard for kids to think and act logic. I rather keep my daughter home for longer instead of rely on her logic while she can be on extreme danger

Still not addressing the link between good sex education and low rates of unwanted pregnancy and abortion then?

Still no response? You parent your way by all means, but your opposition to goos sex education started young flies in the face of the evidence.

About sex education because this time girls as young as 8 can have period then ok teach them about ministrations,then teach about body development etc but NOT teach kids about sex until.they are 13 at least, because even if girls can have periods fast in age they are still kids and I can't imagine girls have sex at this young age,because this will be simply crime even if was with the girl constent . So apart from teaching on menstruation and body development I not see any sense to educate kids under the age of 13 about sex. When the kids reach age 13 then it can be slow introduced the education about sex like contraception etc. But I can't imagine young girls and boys age 10 learn about sex let them be kids.

If you wait until they’re 13 their mates will have told them all kinds of shit. It’s far too late.

I said if teen girls not roaming outside in dark after school and not have boyfriends when they are under 13 , this won't be happen

Is it just teen girls that you intend to lock up at home or teen boys as well? It takes two you know!

There are countries with this sort of restrictive sexist policy in place, one of those countries has just this week stopped the training of midwives (I bet even with your narrow world view you can work out which country).

I'd rather educate my daughter and balance the risk of predatory males against the benefit of her freedom to grow and become independent, than imprison her for her childhood and then suddenly have her walk out into a big scary world at 18.

Thank you - so you're happy to ignore all the evidence that says educating young people makes them less likely to have sex young, less likely to get pregnant young and less likely to have an abortion. You'd rather keep them ignorant and at higher risk of all of the above.

At age 10, they absolutely do need to know the essentials about how babies are made, because some of them will be physically able to have one if they don't have the knowledge and the power to say no.

I really feel for your daughter. I've met women and girls who were locked and and kept from the outside world by their restrictive misogynistic parents and they end up completely unprepared for adulthood.

As a mother of a premmie born at 27 weeks and therefore having witnessed babies in NICU at 24 weeks, I find the suggestion of more late abortions abhorrent.
There is a case to lower the limit to 22 weeks given that survival rates below 24 weeks have improved significantly in recent years.
I don't however think that anything else in the current UK system needs to be changed.

Thank you - so you're happy to ignore all the evidence that says educating young people makes them less likely to have sex young, less likely to get pregnant young and less likely to have an abortion. You'd rather keep them ignorant and at higher risk of all of the above.

I am sure there is evidence that shows the exact contrary.

Or there would be if "they" hadn't hidden it or censored it.

Yes is take two I know that and yes boys young should not roaming outside too they both kids girls and boys under age 13 especially... ok is your choice but my daughter who is 11 not feel imprisoned because she can't go out after school in dark roaming through city. She have contact with her friends at school and they are sometimes coming to house and she had contact with them every day. To you is look like prison but not for my daughter. She is 11 I not teach her about sex because I think is too early I want her childhood still be going on, but I do teach her about body development and menustration as she at age her body is changing.

Of course I do - but they are still able to fight for a chance of survival with advancements we have made.

You will also note from that link that it’s impossible to tell the outcome before an attempt has been made.

The value of the lives of children born with disabilities is not part of this conversation but you have emotively dragged them into it

if you’d bothered to read the thread you would see I was responding to a post where the poster implied it was it was better to let them pass away rather than help them.

We are discussing the relationship between viability and abortion laws

Actually it was about Farage saying he wanted to discuss late term abortions.

I think there is a discussion to be had in which it needs to be lowered - unless there are severe abnormalities or the mothers life is at risk