Reform and abortion

[Craftymam]

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low.

Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights.

Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

Exactly that. A way for local blowhards to get a sense of power and a platform and for the massively misogynistic men among them to secretly salivate a bit looking at the ‘fallen’ women.

If any of them actually wanted to make a change to the law to they’d be lobbying their MP. Nope, instead they just stand outside their local abortion clinic filming women coming and going about their legal business. Creepy as fuck.

Interesting variation in the sense of extremely depressing in so far that they show very clearly which countries make even a vague attempt to value the lives and health of girls and women

I am pro choice , but an abortion at 38/39 weeks would be murder.

Do you think UK values women in this sense most in Europe?
I mean like there is not even a basic in UK like easy access to own gynecologists which I had in another for free every year for check up....

Basically yes. But generally it's done for medical reasons. But the baby would not be born alive as someone asked

Its a horrendous situation for those who have to go through it ( my DD did at 25 weeks) and really cannot imagine anyone choosing that lightly

This comes with it's own problems though. Hospitals intervention even when it's not wanted.its that that stopped my DD having any chance of seeing her baby alive. Instead she had to have babys heart stopped before the Induction

My post was in reply to someone suggesting that late abortion is painful and therefore to be avoided at all cost regardless of the wishes of the mother and her bodily autonomy, and NICU care somehow is not. Both things can be true and both routes, late abortion or no expenses spared treatment of extreme premies can both be right, dependent on the mother and her circumstances. But advances in one field (NICU) should never be at the expense of women and their bodily autonomy.

Extreme premies are not my area of specialism, but that doesn't mean we didn't try for a really long time, and as such I am entitled to the feelings and fears I experienced at the time. I've resuscitated much older kids and young adults with poor neurological outcomes, and I can assure you the guilt I feel for "saving" those lives is real, and something I will not apologise for or resign from my profession over.

That isn’t your judgement to make and you’re completely out of order with that post.

If worked with a colleague on a NICU ward and they felt the babies should be allowed to pass away instead of being saved and felt guilt about it saving them I’d report it as it’s a conflict of interest - and possibly a dangerous one

@anothercupplease

Yeah quit it please.

You don’t know the circumstances or condition of any of the people PP is talking about resuscitating. You literally have no idea. It’s PP who is sharing their experience.

You have commented and said your piece. That’s it now.

So please stop because it’s become a personal attack and I will have no issue with reporting you.

The one premie I've delivered sadly passed away, the circumstances surrounding their birth and distance to hospital meant the odds were stacked against them.

It is other older kids/young adults that have been left, after resuscitation, in a state that I would not wish upon myself, my own child or my worst enemy, yes I feel guilty, even though I did my job well. I have no idea whether the parents are grateful to have a non verbal, tetraplegic version of their child in their life rather than no child. Like the abortion debate and the assisted dying bill views are highly personal and very polarised.

Unfortunately the statistics around paediatric pre hospital cardiac arrests can only be described as tragic, with very few positive neurological outcomes. It is possible to do my job well and feel shit about it at the same time.

Aren't medical ethics a minefield.

Scanning babies all day removes you from the difficult decision making process. Your posts are highly emotive and yet devoid of empathy. I wonder how you would feel if you actually had to watch real human suffering.

Healthy babies are not and cannot be aborted after 24 weeks. Anyone who finds themselves faced with a choice between continuing a pregnancy and abortion at that stage has already received devastating news and deserves every ounce of compassion we have.

Healthy babies are not and cannot be aborted after 24 weeks. Anyone who finds themselves faced with a choice between continuing a pregnancy and abortion at that stage has already received devastating news and deserves every ounce of compassion we have

I know but that’s not what is being discussed here.

Preemie babies may suffer in the beginning for a couple of months but the vast majority go on to lead perfectly normal lives, so it’s very much worth it.

That why every effort is given to ensure the baby has every chance of survival

Absolutely.
Then make sure that euthanisia is legal and expanded to get rid of people who might be "a burden" to society.

No you are suggesting that babies born before 24 weeks can survive but seem completely ignorant about what that survival looks like and someone, with experience you don't have, is pointing out that the interventions required to enable that survival can cause immense suffering. Until you've had to see that everyday perhaps you should keep your judgemental opinions about it to yourself and be grateful that the joyful toe waggling you see on screen keeps you insulated from the reality.

Those I know who are against migration and abortion are also very against euthanasia

Babies born before 24 weeks, if they survive, do not go onto to lead perfectly normal lives.

Are you genuinely ignorant about the reality or lying? I can't tell.

Preemie babies may suffer in the beginning for a couple of months but the vast majority go on to lead perfectly normal lives, so it’s very much worth it.

For pre-24 weekers this is absolutely not true. You either know this and are being economical with the truth, or you have some reading to do.

Nigel Farage has no right to a voice in the media at all.

Perhaps you should educate yourself before you embarrass yourself any further.

According to This study
only 20% of babies born prematurely go on to live normal (if you can call it that) lives, while the remaining 80% have some variation of disability/health problems.

The type of disability varies based on the stage of prematurity, but the babies who do worst are the babies born before 28 weeks gestation.

It’s not wishing a baby dead to say that it isn’t necessarily in their best interests to have survived. That doesn’t mean that the staff in neonatal units don’t do the best by the babies they care for or that they don’t care. But as unpalatable as it may sound, there are sometimes worse fates than death.

It’s not considered ok to say it because there’s ultimately a human being at the other end of that description. But the truth is that when you think of a tiny baby surviving, and that being all they’ve essentially done, you’re not thinking of the child, the adult, they will become, with limited life quality, possible constant health problems, and the thought of what will happen to them, as well as those who care for them, for the next 50, 60, 70 years if they make it that far.

Or perhaps they won’t, in which case you are pulling a baby back from certain death just to go on to live what life you’ve given them until that certain death comes round a few months/years down the track.

He is an elected representative for what it's worth.

However since he's been on Question Time more times than Fiona Bruce I'd accept the argument that he's had his fair share now and can happily be cancelled.

Although to be fair he does pay for all his publicity. And it's surprising how many papers take Roubles.

The varying disabilities also include needing to wear glasses which is also included in that statistic. So we shouldn’t save the preemies because they may need glasses? Or may be deaf?

Yes there are some serious complications but they only account for around 24%

But I’d love to engage in a thread about children born with disabilities and if their lives are worth it - especially Down Syndrome children so if you want to start a separate thread about it I’ll happily join you over there

Again another incredibly naive statement.