Reform and abortion

[Craftymam]

Just a public service announcement as I missed this last week and find it quite shocking that coverage was so low.

Nigel Farage has said he wants to ‘open a new discussion’ on abortion rights.

Considering everything that’s gone on in America, the rise in popularity of reform and this alleged 100 Million donation from Elon musk; I felt I had to bring this to everyone’s attention.

You cannot see the innocent people in those skyscrapers as anything but oppressors, that they personally are responsible for atrocities.

Assuming you are British, you think it’s okay for radical Muslims to harm you because of your nationality? Solely because the British government has done dodgy things in the past?

Is this really the road you want to go down?

It is actually a repulsive world view.

You're making up fairy tales in order to cover up your ignorance. You voted for Trump so it comes with the territory.

I believe the people killed during 9/11 deserved to die as much as the millions killed during the so called War on Terror.

Unlike some, I don't conflate innocent people with hawkish governments and terrorists.

What does 9/11 have to do with abortions in UK

It was an inside job anyway.

I voted Trump precisely because I want a more isolationist US policy.

But anyone willing to fly planeloads of innocent people into the side of a skyscraper is an enemy of civilization.

If you can’t admit that, then you are the one with a problem.

Hang on - that is such a fucking horrible warped view. Dont fool yourself that men don’t find any reason to kill other men - and that goes across the world. We are ALL cannon fodder and no one deserves to die because powerful men decided it should be so.

Your no better than anyone else who takes ‘sides’

Enough with the derailing of the thread, go start your own if you want to talk Middle East politics

It doesn’t - absolutely nothing. But people cannot help themselves as they are obsessed

I haven't in anyway justified 9/11. I have pointed out that the US has killed way more Muslims than Muslims have killed US citizens.

It's ironic that you say Muslims shouldn't be allowed into the US when your country is currently funding yet more crimes against humanity.

I never said that: I said it would have been a reasonable response to 9/11.

Anyway you’ve spouted your vile views, where every citizen is a target and there are no innocents on any side.

Thanks, I’ll leave the rest of you to the actual topic here

Like Trump, you just make stuff up. It must be the chlorinated chicken.

Farage can fuck off, he’d say fucking anything to get the incel vote

This hyperbole "they allow babies to be killed right up to term" was what i was sent by a relative who is very much into conspiracy theory. (No clarification who "they" are am guessing the establishment) this is the sensationlaism they operate on to people who are unaware of the facts and processes for such a late term abortion of which the stats demonstrate its less than 1%of all abortions. These are serious cases where the life of either the mother/baby is at risk or some later detected abnormAlity which there are some that cannot be detected esrlier. It also needs remembering that some will have been much wanted pregnancies.
For half a century women needing terminations have been governed by the current law. The statistics demonstrate that women mostly choose termination before 10 weeks. Few abort at 24 weeks or near to that deadline. So FOR OVER HALF A CENTURY women have been making appropriate decisions for themselves. Surely this is the best evidence available? Though i understand it must be chilling for some men to learn that shock horror women dont need them to dictate their lives. Worse still they dont get a say, what is the world coming to for these snaky misogynists i ask you.

I supported a woman to get a late abortion following a rape at 26 weeks. (Didnt realise as the perpetrator had drugged her) it was incredibly traumatising for her as it was " a fully formed baby" was she a psycopath julia?
Yes, medical science can save babies at an earlier stage but lets not take away the choice from those who are carrying a much wanted baby but irregularities needing further investigations and for the woman to discuss with her medical team the extent of any disabilities and the support that would be required. All of which takes time.
Early as possible late as necessary.

I think the cut off limit for abortions should be at 12 weeks unless the baby has severe fetal abnormalities or the mothers life is at risk.

The trouble is, this is a really multi-layered problem and some of the layers involve abuse or families facing huge problems.
Lots of women don’t recognise that they’re pregnant early on and that could be for various reasons including being on contraception, breastfeeding, having had to have fertility support in order to conceive previously, having been told one of the parents is infertile… For some of these women, pregnancy is a disaster for which they are not equipped to deal, which could shatter their whole lives.
Then you have those who get pregnant on purpose and the father then upends the relationship or becomes abusive, so they prefer not to have the baby and be tied to him for a couple of decades.
Those who are prevented from accessing contraception but who can’t afford a(nother) baby.
Those who have dc with additional needs and who couldn’t cope with another child (or doesn’t want to have another if they feel that it would be born with an obligation to look after the sibling later in life).

So many reasons and so complicated that a really short limit would make abortion inaccessible for many, which does then lead to unsafe behaviour.

I never thought I’d see women being harassed outside abortion clinics by pro life protesters in this country. I had an unwanted pregnancy terminated at age 22 in a place in south London. (1990)
it was a quiet discreet place. I dread to think of what it must be like now. Is this yet another ‘thing’ that’s crept over from across the Atlantic?

The discuss about limits can be interesting imho. Uk alongside 1 more are omly countries in Europe with this high limit . Most have first trimester. Stats comparisons might be interesting. Off to google.

Ghis is not sayong UK should lower it, just saying the massive differences are interesting

Whereas responsible parents lock their underage daughters in the house at all times and don't let them have a social life, because that's how you raise functioning adults. I can tell you've never raised a teenager.

Farage is not a patriot. He is the front man for some very nasty people who pay him to promote things which are not in the interests of the people of this country.

The mainstream media are complicit. They are putting him on BBC almost weekly and put him on I’m a Celebrity even though he practically has his own tv channel.

Even if you’re traditional ‘small c’ Conservative you should hope Labour succeeds in turning our country around. It’s not about party loyalty. Farage and his backers are waiting in the wings and will do irreparable damage if they get anywhere near the levers of power.

The poster ‘Dotjones’ who suggested up to birth abortion is not posting on good faith. They are often on threads pushing for the hard right. It’s their intention to damage the credibility of pro-choice supporters.

I agree. The 24 week viability argument is a straw man. Realistically all babies born before 30 weeks will spend time in NICU. Many 24 workers will not survive long term or will have severe disabilities. My 35 weeker also required ICU level care for the first 24 hours. As do many at that stage. It would be so cruel to take away the option for a tiny number of women in desperate circumstances just because of amazing medical advances in neonatal medicine.

It’s also cruel on an infant which can survive out of the womb at 24 weeks too. An injection to the heart will most certainly cause pain.

I scan these babies all day - they hold on to their toes, waggle their fingers. It’s way to late to offer abortions at this stage

Babies don’t survive unaided at that point though! Have you ever seen a 24 week newborn. Intubated and so fragile they are handled the bare minimum to do their care. Most spend weeks/months in NICU. I’m sure if a baby born at 24 weeks required no medical interventions it would make headline news. True viability is probably more like 30 weeks.
Also many disabilities are screened for at the 20 week stage so limiting to 16 weeks basically stops abortion for medical reasons. Causing unnecessary suffering for mums and babies.

You can get an abortion for medical reasons at any point in pregnancy. That isn't what's being discussed here.

If you're concerned about cruelty and pain in pre term babies, then you need to hope you never witness or partake in resuscitating one.

I've delivered a 28 weeker in the community and perform newborn life support. Every ventilation I feared I'd pop their tiny lungs, every compression I was terrified of crushing them, and when my colleague inserted an intraosseous needle into their tiny tibia was horrific.

What these babies that are not truly viable, without advanced medical care and technology, are subjected to in an attempt at their survival is far far from pleasant or natural. A single injection to the heart in utero would be far more peaceful.

My point is you cannot "just" get an abortion people talk about it like is easy as popping to the shops it isn't and people need to accept that and they just DONT

Site is too damn glitchy to reply, but to the person saying it's misinformation that women are being denied ectopic care.

https://news.sky.com/story/how-us-abortion-bans-put-women-at-risk-my-wife-almost-bled-out-in-our-toilet-it-cant-be-the-same-for-my-daughter-13252720

How is this any different?