Colleague has complained about me using wrong pronouns

[CandyCane103]

Name changed but have been on mn for a fair while now.

I work in a role which requires me to do casework supporting vulnerable people. I am supporting a member of staff with some cases that fall under my specialism. We've always got along well and I've really enjoyed working with her. I've been here a number of years, she is 6 months in. One of her cases is a non binary person, and she emails me occasionally for advice as it is a long and complex case (has been ongoing for months now since before she joined the team). I usually get it right but have occasionally written 'she' by accident. They have a female name and I am not intentionally using 'she', it just naturally happens. Instead of speaking to me about it, she has made a complaint to my line manager, who has had a word. Line manager was fine about it and it wasn't a telling off. More of a passing on a message.

Now feels very awkward and think my line managers advice to her was that she should speak to me in the first instance. I really want to raise with my colleague that she should have spoken to me instead of running straight to my line manager. Not sure how to handle this as I've never had a complaint from a member of staff and it has ruffled my feathers.

Would you just leave it be?

They are medical anomalies, and they are still either male or female. That's a scientific fact.

Further, those with intersex/DSDs have asked that they not be weaponised in this debate.

Is anyone surprised that the non binary/ gender ideologues are attempting to appropriate DSDs?

The whole of gender ideology involves appropriation of other people's reality.

We don't tolerate that with race or disabilities so why we are supposed to kowtow to gender ideology completely mystifies me.

What absolute nonsense. In the real world most people are ignoring this stupid fad and getting on with their lives. Even LinkedIn have removed pronouns from their platform recently.
Correct sex pronouns are essential to keep women and children safe.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting that in addition to always referring to a person using their preferred pronouns we should not even be allowed to discuss among ourselves the fact that we find preferred pronouns problematic because of the negative impact complying with them has on the rest of the population?

OPs colleague damaged the working relationship.

It is, and they clearly have a problem with specific women on this thread. Oh well 🤷‍♀️

Prove your point that gender critical people feel that their rights and beliefs are valid too? Yes, I don't think any of us are denying that we feel our rights and beliefs are valid too.

Gladly. @IdylicDay first of all said if you were a manager, as if the poster is lying about being a manager. She has also accused other posters of lying about their professions because she doesn't believe educated people in trusted roles in society can disagree with her.

She then said No, that's the entire point! Your stance creates an 'us and them' atmosphere. Mine, is one of communication and teamwork. You encourage a hierarchy and an us vs them atmosphere. Which to me can be paraphrased as calling the poster a terrible manager.

So, if you read between the lines and squint a lot, you could argue that posters have said what you accused them of saying?

She then said No, that's the entire point! Your stance creates an 'us and them' atmosphere. Mine, is one of communication and teamwork. You encourage a hierarchy and an us vs them atmosphere. Which to me can be paraphrased as calling the poster a terrible manager.

That's a stretch. What it actually is is saying that it is a different management style.

Different companies prefer different approaches. Different managers manage differently.

People in disagreement on a discussion board called "Am I Being Unreasonable" shocker.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting that in addition to always referring to a person using their preferred pronouns we should not even be allowed to discuss among ourselves the fact that we find preferred pronouns problematic because of the negative impact complying with them has on the rest of the population?

I think many genderists do think exactly that.

To compare not using pronouns to racism is highly, highly disrespectful to anyone who has experienced racism.

Jesus Christ

@Teateaandmoretea

I think the issue with the colleague going to the manager is that the OP made a genuine slip-up by accident. It happens sometimes, even when people are trying their best to remember. I can see how people who are conditioned to automatically use "she" for someone who physically looks like a typical female will sometimes get it wrong, especially when (in the case of the OP) it's a relatively recent thing that she's had to start doing. The OP is doing her best to remember, but sometimes she forgets.

What bothers many people about the colleague's actions is that they approached the line manager over something that was an unintentional accident, rather than an act of deliberate rudeness and malice. I think many people at work would feel put out and upset at being reported over something that was completely unintentional on their part. If someone has done nothing morally wrong, it can come across as rather harsh to go straight to a manager to inform them of it.

Perhaps the colleague had sympathetic reasons for telling the line manager. She may have simply felt uncomfortable discussing it personally with the OP. Perhaps she even misunderstood the situation and thought the OP had actually deliberately used the incorrect pronoun. I couldn't say.

But the OP has told us themselves that it was a genuine accident on her part, and given that there's no reason to disbelieve her, I understand why people are sympathising with her (the OP) and questioning the colleague's decision.

I suppose I should try to clarify.

I don't mean my post to come across as a directive - saying that people must do this. Perhaps it reads that way, regardless. What I mean is that I do personally believe that referring to individuals in the manner they wish to be referred to is the polite thing to do. So ideally, I think people should try to make the effort, but no one should be forced to.

If you do not wish to use someone's preferred form of address or identification, you absolutely do not have to, and I don't think you should be forced to. I personally think it's rather impolite not to, but that's my personal feeling. You presumably do not see it as impolite.

As an occultist, I'd also say that in my view of an ideal world people shouldn't look down on occultists and see us as stupid/weird/lesser people, but there should not be any draconian laws that force people not to do that.

In the meantime, the Equality Act protects both your beliefs and mine.

As it should do.

I wasn't suggesting Teateaandmoretea was lying. It is a turn of phrase. I guess I could have said 'as a manager,..' but I was typing as I was thinking.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Sorcerer; while we may disagree, I fully respect your right to hold your personal views.

To maintain my own integrity while avoiding ruffling feathers, especially in written communications, I know it’s possible to use the client’s name in place of pronouns/possessive pronouns.

Have a peaceful day 🐦‍⬛

Of course. And in response to your point upthread, there is a specific issue, not only with women on this thread, but with this site in general. There's a line on a notoriously unpleasant micro-blogging site that Mumsnet is a 'hotbed' of nasty, evil prejudice and phobia. We've all seen them plopping onto threads to gather screenshotted 'evidence' of their particular confirmation bias.

They've succeeded pretty much everywhere else. A bunch of breastfeeding Australian mums found their way over here when their forum was closed, and Reddit shut down their GC sub whilst allowing some disgraceful NRA ones with really hate-filled content to remain. As far as freedom of respectful, lawful discussion goes (they will pull anything that isn't), Mumsnet is the last bastion standing. GI activists are desperate to have this site or at the very least the FWR boards closed as well, leaving concerned women no place at all for discussing their legitimate concerns about what might happen if the rights of two allegedly marginalised groups (women being the only marginalised majority, GIs having an unaccountable power that has captured many major UK public and private institutions), happen to conflict.

Mumsnet isn't just a discussion site, it's also a pressure group and a grass-roots feminist forum.

The idea of women talking and collectively organising themselves is obviously really threatening to somebody.

You're welcome; I hope you have a peaceful day too.

Mumsnet is a pressure group, and they have lost advertising contracts with flora and audible due to being known for transphobia now. I'm sureore companies will follow.

Ultimately, if it wasn't true, these companies could have a quick look at the discussion boards and say oh! No transphobia here! As you were! But they're not, they're pulling advertising contracts because they don't want to be associated with the hateful views often displayed here.

Firstly that was years ago. The mood has changed.

Secondly, if people like you define transphobia as calling a man a man, then yes, those of us on the side of science and reason are going to come out as 'transphobic'. But the word has lost all power and meaning now, as it's been so abused. I don't care what names you call me, I'm going to keep speaking the truth.

Yes, it's transphobic these days to think male rapists shouldn't be placed in women's prisons, or that women should be allowed single-sex rape crisis services. So, if that's what being transphobic means, happy to be so!

Amen to this.

Perhaps @Cheesytoastie can explain what's so very 'hateful' about this position?

That’s not actually true, though. It’s not about the nuance. It never is. No representative from any of those companies will bother actually reading about what’s being written on MN any more than the people who send JKR death threats have actually read her essay or views on the matter.
They don’t want to be associated with a site that has a reputation, even if that site’s reputation is completely unfair.

Time and again, the most bile and vitriol that I have seen comes from those that are in defence of gender ideology rather than those against it.

Its all:
MN: Here are some stats and facts about this that you can check for yourself.
TRA: You bastard transphobe!!!!
MN: no, no - not a a transphobe. Just trying to fight for women’s rights here

Honestly think the far left/woke are the nastiest of all. I would love to draw a satirical caricature of a far left leaning person screaming in the face of someone else “be KIND or I will burn your fucking house down” and see if the irony is lost on those people.

On the plus side they’ve stopped telling us to “die in a grease fire”.

Sill plenty accusations of “denying our existence”, though. Nobody is denying anyone’s “existence”. Disagreeing with their self-description, definitely. But that happens in all aspects of life.