Or is this Santa post unreasonable?

[BusySyllabub]

The author of gentle parenting books Sarah Ockwell Smith posted on Instagram that it’s best to never pretend that Santa is real.

I did some research on this just to be sure and discovered research that indicated that very few children are adversely affected by the Santa myth.

AIBU to think that we are overthinking everything, taking the magic out of childhood, and that educators are now posting nonsense for clicks and engagement?

Why were you leaving a plate out for Santa if you didn’t believe? It obviously helped put a bit of magic into your Christmas. So it kind of makes your last sentence on the matter a moot point.

@Sometimeswinning because it's part of the fun?

I knew my dad ate the mince pie and drank the sherry and that the carrot went back in the cupboard to be used for Christmas dinner - but that still didn't mean it wasn't a fun tradition on Christmas Eve.

It doesn't make my point moot at all - which was that you can still do all the fun stuff without telling your kids that Santa is real - it doesn't ruin Christmas!

He wasn’t wrong though 🤷‍♀️ It’s not down to other children to maintain the belief of their classmates in someone who doesn’t exist.

@BusySyllabub yes - but it can still be fun without telling your children to believe that a fat man really does deliver presents by climbing down your chimney. That's my point.

You don't need to believe to have the magic.

I mean, he wasn't wrong was he?

If parents choose to do the whole "Santa" thing they can't expect the entire world to keep up the lie for them.

I am not a gentle parent but my child was afraid of Santa so I didn’t bother pretending he was real from a very young age (4/5) as it wasn’t magical it was scary. My child actually understood that it was important to allow their younger sibling to believe in the magic - they enjoyed the magic of Santa, and they never ruined it for them which was very sweet. My young child worked it out about age 9 or 10 and it wasn’t a big deal.

my older child still had fun at Xmas she just never sat on santas knee and was terrified of a big strange man so it was fun unless it was Santa related 😂

One of my earliest memories is of how gutted I was to find out it wasn’t real… Found out because my older brother was irate at being lied too…

My older two must have loved the magic as they are the ones who want to do bits for their little brother. The elf has been retired tho!

It's just too earnest isn't it. Where's the fun and spontaneity?

My youngest is now 12, this is the first year I don’t think he believes although we haven’t discussed it. Last year was touch and go I think. He has additional needs, so this might play a part. My eldest believed up until secondary though, and again, we’ve never discussed it.

I am really sad about it tbh. I think it made Xmas so much more special.

I vividly remember believing as a child, up until maybe 9. But those younger years, I remember the excitement and the magic of Father Christmas coming and I am so so glad I got to experience that because nobody can convince me Xmas would have been just as special without it.

I saw that too. I’ve gone off S O-S lately. Santa actually is real though anyway, depends how you define him.

1. he did exist
2. I’ve seen about 5 in my local neighbourhood front gardens this week
3. how do the presents get there if Santa doesn’t exist as a concept? And then once a kid figures out that the Santa concept is actually facilitated by the parent, they then join in and facilitate for younger siblings. And once all the kids know, who cares? Keep going if you want! It literally doesn’t matter.

I for example would say that Mickey Mouse is real and exists. Wouldn’t you??

And I would say that me being thin is false and imaginary, as thin me has only ever existed in my mind.

Let them have some magic and excitement at Christmas. For as long as they wish to believe.

He came about in the 16th century.

He typified the spirit of good cheer at Christmas, bringing peace, joy, good food and wine and revelry.

If there is anything the world could do with right now its that.

I think it depends on the kid honestly.

We have 'done Santa' but very vaguely, I didn't want to get into elaborate make believe about how it all works, and it's never been a big part of our Christmas anyway. DD1 is 5 and said to me yesterday that she doesn't think Santa exists and that it's us who buys the presents. She's a very logical thinker and doesn't like not knowing things or there being questions about things (she poo pooed the idea of the tooth fairy immediately ). She's then asked me directly if he existed or not, and I won't lie to her if asked. Weirdly she seemed always relieved, like she'd solved it. I asked if she minded that he wasn't real and she said 'nope' and off she went 🤷‍♀️

I never thought I'd feel uncomfortable about the Santa thing before being a parent, but actually I found lying about how things work quite uncomfortable, hence why we ended up being very vague and not going into details. I do find it a bit weird when people got really OTT about it and have all this stuff about magic keys and answers to every question the kid asks that's is essentially just telling them loads of elaborate lies to curb the natural curiosity. But I don't think it's damaging particularly for most kids, it just doesn't sit right with me.

DD2 is 2 but she's not a fan of Santa already and I'm wondering if we just don't bother at all with her. She's says he's scary and she doesn't like him and now DD1 knows he's not real it seems easier not to.

And DD1 has been told she mustn't say anything to her friends about it as they still believe and it might upset them, so just to keep her new knowledge to herself and talk about it at home. I hope she will, she's a thoughtful little thing, but at the end of the day I'm not going to not tell her the truth when she's asked me because of other people's parenting decisions.

Totally agree. Plus it’s unnecessary. Children can still enjoy putting up stockings etc. without believing that he is ‘real’.

I think most people that write books on parenting or influencers that offer parenting advice are a bit loopy!

I have a friend who runs parenting classes in our area. Not the council.led, well researched parenting skills groups, but just some random ones! She has.no qualifications - just thinks she's a great mum and wants to pass on her knowledge! - she's lovely but utterly bonkers and her parenting techniques while well meaning, are quite unusual!

I read the odd academic paper or well researched book on parenting, but otherwise assume most of it is opinion and often given by someone who is a little quirky and not necessarily the kind of parent I want to be!

I think the problems tend to come when parents get too invested and overplay their hand.

I went for the light-touch approach; I have analytical little sods so the less evidence for them to tear apart the better. I used "what do you think" approach to answer their questions. They hit doubt quite young and did the usual playing along through the junior school years. DS2 was y6 last year and it was the first year of openly not believing, but he still wanted to do a Santa visit and play the game.

I believed until I was 7, just short of 8 when a 5 year old blurted out that he wasn't real. Optomism won over logic for a few more years, but it wasn't a devout belief. That was also the Christmas that I fell in love with Narnia, and still feel for the backs of wardrobes just in case...

Fantasy is a huge part of childhood (and often well beyond). Fiction is not lies and it generally has its roots in some form of truth and culture or it has no credibility. Escapism is vital especially in a world with so much avaliability of negative news, diminished communities and limited free-play.

I'm no great fan of "Gentle Parenting" as a package. It's not that it doesn't have things we can learn from and utilise, but it does sometimes have unrealistic expectations about children's emotional maturity and complexity.

I would be so upset if another small child told mine there was no Santa. It’s hardly a harmful lie, it’s a sweet festive tradition and I do think it adds to the magic. I love Christmas. I honestly feel quite sorry for the families that go down this route, I’m sure they don’t feel they’re missing out, but all the little things like leaving out the carrot and mince pie, checking for Santas boot prints in the morning etc, are all such innocent fun. (Also the ‘being good for Santa thing buys you about 6 weeks of good behaviour 😅)

If so many people felt they had been traumatised by their parents lying about Father Christmas/Fairies etc, then surely the myth would have died out years ago because people wouldn't have passed it onto their children?

People that found it upsetting are unlikely to want to upset their children in the same way, aren't they? Unless you're saying that people who found it upsetting are also inclined to be lacking in empathy.

I remember believing. I remember (gradually) realising it wasn't true. My brother had to be told because he was far too old to still believe. Both of us have enjoyed keeping the story up with our children, and my children love keeping it up with their younger cousins.

There's an aspect that people who post things like this article are like conspiracy believers. They love to feel important, that they have a special insight that other people don't.
But they don't. Yes, there probably are some children who are upset when they find out. But equally well there are many who love the magic of it and when they realise aren't upset, and enjoy pretending to believe.

My mum was told from very early that it wasn't true and she feels she missed out on the fun of believing. So you get the opposite too.

Mine were asking questions and finding plot holes very early. So I didn't have to make a call. They attend school with children who have many versions and none. They are well verses in different families have different traditions and or religions.

I don't care what others do but I have a huge issue in adults ever telling my child to lie. That isn't happening on my watch.
Any talk of secret, etc by any adults to my children won't go well.

We tell children in early years to not keep secrets for protection. We tell them that adults won't tell them to lie. And then some adults do the opposite.

I am thankful my children cohort of peers don't go hard on the Santy (Ireland) game.

When I was in Y6 our teacher told the class to "grow up" because he wasn't real and 2 children burst into tears and the whole classroom was chaos. I still remember how upset they were for days. This was the 90s and I can't imagine something like that would happen now.

I will continue to tell my DS about father Christmas for as long as he wants to go along with it, but no pressure. People just need to do what works for their family really.

That's saying he's real.

To me, embracing the myth means doing all the stuff while being open and honest that it's just a story. My kids know it's just a bloke dressed up and that the gifts in the stockings come from mummy and daddy, but we still did all the grottos and stuff with them. It's just they knew it wasn't real.

If you are saying "if you don't believe you don't get presents" then you are saying it's real (which I always find odd because you know it isn't but that's a separate related conversation).

But you can do all of the fun stuff without believing that Santa exists. That's kind of the point people are trying to make.

Just like you still do Easter Egg hunts even though there clearly isn't a massive rabbit carrying around a basket of chocolate eggs.

Lots of the responses here seem to be mixing up believing in Santa with doing loads of fun Christmas activities. You can still do all that stuff - it's not any less magical or fun because it's a game or tradition rather than the truth.

It’s a perfectly valid view. I would have preferred not to go down the Santa route, but my DH was adamant we should as it was a huge part of his childhood. So I agreed and go along with it. DD does get excited about it so I can see why people do it.

I still feel uncomfortable when she asks me detailed questions about Santa and I have to make up stories to respond. I tend to ask her to ask DH in those circumstances. But she is only 6 and recently asked if Santa was real, outright. I could see it was only half questioning, so I said yes. Having to lie was pretty unpleasant.

Sad. SOS is quite annoying smug though, I remember her from her baby days on parenting forums.

I appreciate that my parents created this magic for me and I did the same with my own children. I didn’t over egg it though, visiting Lapland etc… as that always seemed a bit OTT and more likely to make them question things. That way, I assuaged my natural tell no lies guilt!

So anything magical, mystical etc is a no, so cute Paddington bear and everything else that is part of childhood is a no.

what then happens to all those curious moments of seeing Santa etc when peeping the covers as a kid. How special to know later your parents loved you to creep about in the middle of the night in red pyjamas and a fluffy hat.