School issue - violent kid

[PeloMom]

My kid started reception in a new school this year. Everything was going well until recently.

He comes every day complaining from a kid in the class getting physical (I don’t know if it’s just with my kid or other kids too although I have overheard the teacher giving parts of a similar speech to other parents as to me in regards to the situation).

I have been proactively approached by the teacher and principal explaining that the situation is being dealt with by involving the school councillors, parents etc.

What is a reasonable timeline for me to expect a resolution?

On top of this It’s an independent school so I’m not prepared to be paying a good amount of money for my kid to be assaulted daily (not that that’s acceptable in public schools to be clear). I have to confirm whether we will be continuing next year at the school at some point. Is it unreasonable for me to expect a solution in the next 2-3 months (holiday time included)? I appreciate it can be a process just trying to gauge if anyone has dealt with this how long it took for them to see a change. What assurances would you seek in the meantime from the school that your child is safe?
YABU- solution will take more than 2-3 months; start looking for a new school
YANBU- thing should resolve quickly

Sorry to ask you, but my son is being hurt on a regular basis by another child who already has 1:1 support, but as you say, they cannot stop every incident. What more can I ask for to protect my child? I'm meeting with the head next week but I'm not sure what I can realistically expect them to do.

This has been going on since year 1 and they're now year 4.

@FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee

You can request that the child has an experienced member of staff supporting him who knows him well and can hopefully spot and prevent triggers. This has the best chance of success.

You can request your child plays on a separate playground and the 1:1 tries their best to keep their child separate. I realise this isn't always possible depending on school set up.

Ask for a meeting with the teacher and their supervisor within 2 school days.
Don't talk about the child who's behaviour is violent, or any other pupils, but about your child.

Ask what they are changing within the school environment to safeguard your child immediately. Insist on a written copy.
Ask for a lessons-learned written report for each incident - listing what happened to your child, what failure in safeguarding occurred to permit it to happen, and what concrete steps will be taken to prevent it from happening again.
Do not accept fluff like "we will keep a closer eye on them" - press for specifics - how will you keep a closer eye on the children, are you allocating additional staffing to the classroom? If not, then how? What are the potential points of failure for the new safeguarding plan, and what steps are the school taking to mitigate them (no plan is failure proof and a school who claims a safeguarding plan is failure proof is delusional at best).
At no time agree to victim-blaming or unreasonable expectations of your child - such as making avoiding the other child's violent behaviour your child's responsibility, or your child being moved or excluded from activities due to the other child's presence.

Yes every child is entitled to an education.
Equally your child is entitled to a safe learning environment.

Where is the hitting taking place? If in the classroom, can the room be organised differently to create a safe space for the child?

If in the playground, can the child have an alternative timetable for breaks so that theirs is before or after the main class? Or in a separate area eg garden or tennis court or whatever?

If in the toilet, child’s 1:1 supervises their visits and clears the toilet before they are allowed in, and no other children use it at the same time.

If during lunch, can the child eat their lunch in a separate room or office, supervised?

Basically it comes down to physical separation . Which is a huge pain to staff, as 1;1 staff also need breaks, lunch etc, but is ultimately the most effective route. Very isolating for the hitter, though, so there may be a need for done things to be in a ‘supervised small hroup’ rather than bring solo.

(That was a reply to @FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee )

@cantkeepawayforever same here- my kid is larger and stronger but will not hurt anyone even if they’re hurting him.

Role play the shouting a lot. Be the teacher, standing quite s long way away or just inside the door - get your child to feel just how loud they have to shout to be heard. We had to practice it a lot snd also alert the teacher so my child knew and trusted that they understood.

It worked well, not really on the bully themselves but to show this was every day, multiple times a day, and to get action.

Thank you @Sherrystrull and @cantkeepawayforever (and @PippaSews if your response was meant for me - it's certainly helpful).

The child already has a separate desk to everyone.

The incidents are happening at break and lunch. My preference would be for them to be kept completely separate but my son says he'd have no one to play with as the other child has latched onto his group, and obviously I wouldn't expect 8 year olds to choose between them.

The other child did used to have separate breaks and lunches to everyone else but as he's deemed as doing better, this is no longer seen as a requirement. The problem is, his "doing better" means he no longer hurts anyone that he's in contact with - instead it's now just aimed at my son. And, unfortunately my son is by far the smallest in the class which he thinks is why he's being targeted (which breaks my heart!)

Then it is reasonable to ask the school to reinstate those separate arrangements, to keep your child safe. It doesn’t matter if he hits 1 person or 10 - if he is targeting one, then that one deserves to be kept safe at school.

When I've had similar experiences at in my class within one friendship group I've split them every day so it's a different group with both the victim and perpetrator each day. That way everyone gets to play with each other apart from the two you're trying to keep apart. Both groups play on different playgrounds and it's much easier to observe (when no one has 1:1 support and it's just me watching this plus 100 other kids with other issues to watch out for!!).

Independent schools are desperate to retain pupils due to the VAT issue and you might find that they are trying to accommodate this child as they don't want to lose an income source. They must think the rest of you will put up with it.

@Sherrystrull is it the same perpetrator attacking the same victim?

Sometimes.

The op mentioned the two children being part of the same friendship group which makes it harder as both children will want to play with their friends while also needing to be kept apart.

@FuckoffeeBeforeCoffee
If the school wants to continue without reinstating separate breaks and lunches, then it is the school's responsibility to provide adequate supervision to prevent further incidents.

One suggestion could be that the adults responsible for lunchtime supervision use a physical tag-in-tag-out system (like a wristband) - the person wearing that wristband is responsible for constant monitoring of the behaviour of this child who behaves physically/violently towards your child (and intervening before harm occurs).

[You might need to offer the suggestion as monitoring the behaviour of any children with violent tendencies towards your child - keeping the focus on safeguarding your child. ]

If they don't like that suggestion, push it back onto the school :

"Without isolating my child socially from his friends, or implementing any measures that could be seen as punishing him for the behaviour of others; what measures are you going to take to safeguard my child during breaks, lunches, and any other time during the school day (outside of the classroom) ?"

I have an 18year old with Autism ADHD and PDA
if my son had been hitting other children at the age of 4/5 I would have been mortified and I would have worked thoroughly with the school to safe guard not only my child but the other children as well
No it’s not ok for a child with or without Sen to attack another child.
In my case I have found my son does have additional needs but he could also just be badly behaved like other children without sen.
I think the op is perfectly in her right to worry about her child’s safety
She is asking what is a reasonable time for things to have been addressed and things put in place to keep her child safe
I’m sorry but that’s not a parent on a witch hunt to get a child excluded.

I think most independent schools can afford a 1-2-1 while they wait for funding to be granted.

Most independent schools only provide full time 1:1 if the parents fund it or the LA does.

ECHPs are not of major significance in private school settings unless the school is a specialist school and is name specifically in an ECHP.

EHCPs can be just as significant in independent mainstream schools, and independent mainstream schools can also be named in an EHCP.

ECHPs are not required in independent school settings, unless the ECHP names the school and the LEA funding comes attached to it. Ie. ECHPs are largely about allocating LEA funding, which enables most private schools to state that they are not a suitable setting for that child and refer them onto a specialist school where the actual provisions of the ECHP may be feasibly provided. Few of the independent schools near me have the facilities to support a child with SEN needs significant enough to warrant an ECHP. Not one child in my DC’s school had one, although approx 10% had SEN needs (dyslexia, ASD/ADHD).

I know what EHCPs are for. My point was it isn’t correct to say they are “not of major significance in private school settings unless the school is a specialist school and is name specifically in an ECHP”.

They can be. Independent mainstream schools can be named in I and therefore the SEP in F and school fees funded. There are DC in independent MS who this applies to. It isn’t just independent SS.

Most independent schools have very little sen budget. Yes the LA can fund support but it is hard to prove that the school has tried everything because frankly they probably haven't and part of the reason is the lack of sen budget.

You don’t need to prove a school has tried everything to secure an EHCP. That is a myth LAs like to perpetuate.

I accept I only have experience of children with significant needs in early years, not into primary. I also accept staff need breaks etc, but that’s why I said the vast majority, not all. I do think schools should be arranging staffing so someone takes over though. Most private schools can afford it. Especially as a temporary thing while an EHCP is put in place. I have an EHCP for my own child. So I know it’s not a quick or simple process. I also know though, that schools try to make out they have to gather evidence and bla bla, but that’s not actually true. The evidence should come from the needs assessment primarily. That’s the whole point!
I don’t know what running at a window with a brick has to do with a child attacking another child. If the 1-2-1 is watching them as they should be though, then they should be able to step in before anything goes wrong, regardless of the triggers. I’ve been a 1-2-1 in early years and it’s been exhausting and poorly paid I agree, but it definitely works if you’re on the ball, you can intervene before they can attack anyone.

Exactly!! I got an EHCP for my child and his school at the time hadn’t tried anything because they didn’t accept he needed any support 🙄

No but the LA will argue that the child's needs could be met in mainstream and they possibly could. Most independent schools don't have the budget to try interventions so they can't show that they have tried anything. You are unlikely to gey an ehc as a result. I used to help parents with ehc applications. Those at private school really struggled.

It will be the opposite.

Violent child in the class stays = lots of parents of his classmates change school as a result, the school lose lots of money.

Exclude violent child = only lose one lot of fees.

The LA may try to act unlawfully, they often do, but that isn’t the law and parents don’t have to accept that. They can appeal. I support parents of DC secure EHCPs, including those an independent schools (and those who have never attend school or even nursery). You do not need to show the school has tried everything.