School issue - violent kid

[PeloMom]

My kid started reception in a new school this year. Everything was going well until recently.

He comes every day complaining from a kid in the class getting physical (I don’t know if it’s just with my kid or other kids too although I have overheard the teacher giving parts of a similar speech to other parents as to me in regards to the situation).

I have been proactively approached by the teacher and principal explaining that the situation is being dealt with by involving the school councillors, parents etc.

What is a reasonable timeline for me to expect a resolution?

On top of this It’s an independent school so I’m not prepared to be paying a good amount of money for my kid to be assaulted daily (not that that’s acceptable in public schools to be clear). I have to confirm whether we will be continuing next year at the school at some point. Is it unreasonable for me to expect a solution in the next 2-3 months (holiday time included)? I appreciate it can be a process just trying to gauge if anyone has dealt with this how long it took for them to see a change. What assurances would you seek in the meantime from the school that your child is safe?
YABU- solution will take more than 2-3 months; start looking for a new school
YANBU- thing should resolve quickly

Bless you OP, you sound like a perfectly reasonable concerned parent - obviously worried about your own DC, but also trying not to demonise the other child.

Mine is only 2 and a half but hasn’t started nursery yet and is going through the hitting and pushing stage - some of the posts on threads like this make me dread him starting nursery at 3 as I don’t know if it will be resolved by then 😢

Sometimes no amount of “No!” or “Kind/Gentle hands!” or “Use your words!”or even taking him out of the room/taking toys away (for repeated infractions) stops him, especially if he’s tired or getting silly. Just the other day I had a lecture from another mother at toddler group (who was lucky enough to have a what seemed to be a naturally quieter girl) because DS had grabbed/pushed her daughter (apparently he “needs to learn” but I’d already stopped him and told him off!). I just wanted to cry when she told him off too as he stood there bewildered -anyone giving him extra attention (even if it’s negative) after he’s done something wrong doesn’t help discourage it😩

I suspect many parents of naturally “easy” children don’t realise that usually the parents of more “difficult” children are doing their best too! But I genuinely hope it gets better soon for your DS ❤️, hopefully the school can keep a better eye on the boy who is hurting others 😢

It is really difficult, because the school needs to meet each child’s needs - both the child with potential SEN and the children at risk of being hurt. Schools almost universally find themselves needing to provide the support -eg 1:1 - first and work out how to pay for it afterwards.

In the case of a private school, which will have smaller classes, more money per child and generally much less SEN need, then this is much less if an issue. Some private schools have a policy that full cost of 1:1 or other SEN support must be borne by the parents.

However, regardless of any SEN, the other students have a right to safety and parents are quite reasonable in working with the school to ensure that safety. (And I say that as a teacher of many, many pupils with SEN, some of whom have put me in danger, let alone other students)

This is the point I was trying to make @NobleWashedLinen not that you were suggesting that the child should be excluded, but that some private schools will throw money at it, not resolve it and then move quickly to exclusion. Which is not actually helpful especially at this age where children NEED early intervention.

What needs to happen is that the money in that school is put to good use implementing a range of strategies until they find one that works, or absolutely everything is exhausted. There is a culture of "I'm paying for it so make this problem go away" that can put schools under pressure to move more quickly to expulsion to keep parents happy which can be detrimental to vulnerable children who deserve a little more work put into helping them sustain school in the context of keeping all the others safe too. A one to one wouldn't be enough intervention for me either.

@aRealitycheck I hate to say it, but what if your child did one day end up with a diagnosis or have some physical or mental trauma that affected their behaviour? Would you not want their school to be really keen to support them? Because God forbid that could happen to anyone.

A diagnosis might explain the behaviour but it does not excuse it. The school still have a duty to keep other children safe. I'm sure if your child was being assaulted on a daily basis you would also want them to be kept safe. Both children's needs are important here.

This is exactly what happened at my kids’ independent in year 1. Quite a few physical incidents, but at some point a little girl was given a black eye by a boy with additional needs and the parents were really unhappy and vocal about it. The parents of the boy were given the choice of paying additionally for 1:1 support or remove him from the school. I know about it detail because the parents of the boy complained a lot on the WhatsApp group about how unfair it all was and their son shouldn’t be made to feel different by having a support person.

This is a ridiculous take. Are you seriously saying parents should just accept their children being hurt and not complain about it? No child should go to school and be hurt on a regular basis. It's not a witch hunt if the child actually is hurting others.

I would be keen for the school to support him AND keep the other children safe from harm. Which might well mean separate or supervised social time with a very small number of peers; specific social skills teaching; close adult supervision / 1:1 / separate seating in the classroom; separate safe space; sensory room for re-regulation.

It should never mean that other children or parents - or staff - should accept a predictable elevated risk of physical harm ‘because the perpetrator has SEN’.

I think the way you start this: "Another witch hunt" is very unkind to the OP. The OP is asking whether it was reasonable to expect the school to have made some inroads into improving the situation in 2 - 3 months (not minutes!).

She then talks about looking for a new school herself. And is clear she is trying to gauge opinion on what might be a norm.

She has not vilified the other child. She has heard other parents potentially in the same situation but has not grouped up with them to talk to the school.

I can hear from your message, you've had a tricky journey. But I think you have allowed your own experience to colour your judgement here and ended up unsupportive of a parent whose child is being regularly hurt.

You have a useful perspective to give so it is a shame that you have assumed some negative motives in the OP which I just don't think you can assume are there.

'Parents like you' can you expand @Worriedmotheroftwo ?

Do you think parents shouldn't be concerned if their child is being assaulted?
We live in Scotland and I've had to remind the school it's 'getting it right for EVERY child' so that included the children who were being assaulted.

I am not saying I dont sympathise with the poster. But I wouldn't want other childen to be hurt or frightened either.

Just because your child has a diagnosis of ADHD or whatever and you're finding it hard too, doesn't excuse your child's behaviour and therefore make it ok for them to hurt others.

We've had to exclude a child recently at my school and is now on a reintegration plan.
(I'm a teacher). We don't like doing it, trust me, but the other children's safety came first. They were having chairs thrown at them.

Please put things into perspective. Yes your child needs help as well, but the safety of 29 other children comes first every time.

Honestly the reason why a child hits is irrelevant to the op. She just wants her little 4 year old to be able to go to school and not be hit and she wants the school to try to implement that.
It's absolutely not a witch hunt and I promise you that when your child was hurting other kids and you felt bleak you weren't the only parent. It was also hard on the parents your child hit having their little kids come home upset from school and being unable to protect them.
There is nothing wrong with the op wanting intervention from the school to deal with this issue regardless of any diagnosis the hitter might have.

Depends on the exact circumstances but yes within half a term the situation should be addressed

You need to teach your kid to hit back, ASAP.

This. My now teenage autistic son used to be violent. I was the 1:1 not leaving his side for a second when with other children. It paid off in the end because he learnt to behave without being able to traumatize anyone.

@lateatwork your post made me a bit teary. We are going through the same with my son and the school seems absolutely hopeless at preventing it.

@Worriedmotheroftwo post yesterday pissed me off so much I couldn't respond. I do not give a fuck that the other child has autism and ADHD. I care that he is repeatedly hurting my son. Yes, I absolutely want him out of the school - he's a danger to others and is just getting bigger.

I would expect an almost immediate resolution. I would worry if this child has older siblings though, the school would not want to ruffle the feathers of a family paying for multiple kids!

You did though.

"however worried you are for your child, the parents will likely be a million times more worried about their child"

This was us too. Horrible situation for all the children involved. DS was swiftly removed from his prep school when his significant needs became apparent. He ended up in state mainstream, where the violence and dysregulation continued. It took me nearly 3 years to get an EHCP and a place at a specialist independent funded by the LA. Not the point of the OP, but it’s disgraceful how independents offload SEN kids and then the LA - despite knowing about the risk of physical altercations with children and teachers - does as little as possible for as long as possible to save money. Meanwhile on here and in RL, everyone blames the parents (ie mother) for the disruptive, unruly SEN child who should be educated somewhere else. 🙄

The OP has not once blamed the parents!!!! What are you reading??

She has asked what she can reasonably expect the school to do and in what time frame.

I didn’t mean the OP, I was replying specifically to the quoted poster, sorry that wasn’t clear. I just meant that on MN there are a depressing number of threads where a poster with a SEN child (like the PP) is blamed for that child’s difficulties, and assumed to be a crap parent.

I think by the end of this term you should be given an answer to how the school intends to keep your child safe. Any longer and I'd consider moving. Be persistent with following up on how its going.

My son was happy at school until an older, much bigger child was put down into his year 2 class. He was incredibly violent and disruptive and it ended with 8 out of 32 kids leaving the class that year, my son included.

He had to deal with daily punches, bruises all over him, his work scribbled over with black pen and on one occasion the older kid hid behind a door & pushed my son (who had his arms full carrying things) right over head first.

The school played every parents concern down and it turned out the older kid was a governors son, hence why they wouldn't do anything. My son begged to leave all his friends to go to a new school for year 3. He did & never looked back, he had a fabulous last 4 years at a new primary.

The older kid who was diagnosed as having special needs in the end lasted another 2 years at that school before going to a specialist school. Whilst I sympathise with the parents, he should never have been able to traumatise so many small children and they should have pulled him out much, much sooner.

I hope that you situation is different and the school is proactive in dealing with it in the best way for everyone.

I'm so sorry to hear that happened. Nobody wants the SEN kid and nobody cares what happens to them, as long as they're not in their own child's class. And yes, the parents are so often blamed (as though there is an easy alternative!).

I agree with what you say about the OP not wanting her child to be hit - that much is obvious. And I've also been on the other side of it (I have another child, who does get hit by a different schoolkid sometimes) so I can see both perspectives. But have you seen the things people are posting on here? Like saying a 4 year old should be excluded for ANY hitting, ever?! Like I said... witchunt. And it IS relevant why the other child is hitting. SEN makes a difference, as shown by various monumental court cases.