To think this attack on London Jewish schoolchildren should have been headline news

[ThisPerkySheep]

I have been waiting for this story to go mainstream, and I’m shocked that it hasn’t.

So far, it seems only the Daily Mail has reported on it - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14142235/amp/Jewish-children-terrified-thugs-London-bus-rocks-Israel.html.

When are we going to start taking the threats against Jews in the UK seriously and actually do something about it?

It really isn't!
I live near a local state secondary and you could walk up to the front door. Yes, you'd need to be buzzed in or whatever, but the Jewish schools are much more set back from the road, you can't even get past the guards unless you have an appointment and your name is on the list.
My DCs went to a regular primary and yes, you had to buzz to get in on the grounds - at the Jewish school there are guards at the gate who wont let you in for love nor money unless you have a prior appointment that is in their diary.These guards are to be applauded for keeping 100s of children and staff safe daily as they are putting themselves on the frontline.

I agree that CST can be OTT - I work in a Jewish environment and their recommendations aren't all necessary for us, but as an organisation they are very necessary.

I'm sorry to hear that, I hope the school came down very hard on the perpetrators.
If anyone wonders why Jewish schools exist, this is one of the reasons.

I remember seeing this on a TV programme a while ago. Very random! I

To get back to the bus itself: London Buses are all contracted out so being operated by UNO doesn't mean anything. I used to live near one of the JFS TfL routes. It looked like any other London bus. You knew it was a school run because it had a number in the 600s.

Probably something along those lines is what Diane Abbott meant to say, but it came out all wrong. And the English press has a full-time cadre of reporters just waiting for her to slip up.

I dread to read the replies on this thread... I'd rather our Jewish problems weren't headline news so we don't have to deal with the additional antisemitic bs response...

That may be the case and I wouldn't disagree with her. Being able to pass (as a white British woman) is a privilege that allows me to get on with my life mostly unbothered by malign actors. It's such a privilege that I forget that's all it is and it can be withdrawn at any time by someone - anyone - who doesn't realise I'm Jewish or doesn't care. In yer-face-antisemitism is a shock precisely because I'm not used to it.

If you're Black or of Asian heritage you never ever have that sort of respite. That in turn, may have its upsides, but it's certainly no privilege. I was disappointed by what Diane Abbott said, (or at least how she said it) partly because in spite of the fact that I'm more of a softy-lefty than she is, I like her. She's a popular constituency MP who puts the legwork in for her constituents and isn't afraid of her own principles. I wish she hadn't said what she did and brought that dumper-truck of fertiliser down on her head from the likes of the DM, Frank Hester, trolls, misogynists, misogynoirists (if that's a word) and the rest. But nothing she said justified the way they behaved.

Such a shame you are feeling that way.
Is this in London or perhaps another big city?
I only ask because I can't imagine that kind of attitude prevailing in the coastal town I am in. We have a very diverse community due to a large refugee intake over 20 years but very little division.

I reckon it depends on who is living in a town at the time. My DB lives in a tiny village in the South. He is literally the only Jew in the village. They’ve lived there for over 30 years and have never experienced any ant-semitism thankfully. They are really involved in lots of village activities and committees and give and receive only support and acceptance. I’m in a city with a fairly big Jewish community and have been on the receiving end of antisemitism, both subtle and very overt over the years.

Unfortunately, for many people, to be Black in this country is to go about your business with a target on your back, not knowing where the next attack is going to come from. You know it's going to come, you just just don't know whether it will be institutional, structural, a leftie 'friend' or racist foe. It won't matter to most racists whether you have an accent or a foreign sounding name, they are just bonus points of attack. Diane Abbott is a good example of this She is intelligent, has an English name, a broad vocabulary, no foreign accent and was born here. The level of racism she has had to endure is horrific.

Mumsnet is full posters waxing lyrical about how we are one of the most welcoming countries in the world, how racism doesn't exist here and even if it does, it's not a bad as America. That's a pretty low bar. This country is far from tolerant and getting worse.

Oh I agree about the skin colour alone being a target. I was just reflecting upon what a few colleagues have said and how they have felt targeted even when sending emails or on the phone before they’ve even been seen in the flesh.

I also agree that I don’t feel we are a tolerant country. We may be better than some other countries but quite frankly, we are probably “least worse” and it’s not something to be proud of! We are not tolerant of any sort of difference. We may pay it lip service and I know many people do genuinely care and what to do better. But it is not enough. The racism, ableism and sexism etc is ingrained in society and institutions.

Unfortunately, for many people, to be Black in this country is to go about your business with a target on your back, not knowing where the next attack is going to come from. You know it's going to come, you just just don't know whether it will be institutional, structural, a leftie 'friend' or racist foe. It won't matter to most racists whether you have an accent or a foreign sounding name, they are just bonus points of attack. Diane Abbott is a good example of this She is intelligent, has an English name, a broad vocabulary, no foreign accent and was born here. The level of racism she has had to endure is horrific.
Mumsnet is full posters waxing lyrical about how we are one of the most welcoming countries in the world, how racism doesn't exist here and even if it does, it's not a bad as America. That's a pretty low bar. This country is far from tolerant and getting worse.

I see this as. Jewish woman with black friends. I’ve seen and heard so much racism towards black people. It’s so frightening and so depressing . I can just about ‘pass’ as white. Black and brown very rarely can. Because I live in the heart of my Jewish community, I’m constantly in fear of who is at my door, who might be wandering around my block of flats and who is outside when I go out. The UK in my experience has never been a welcoming country and as you say, is getting less so as time goes on.

Many people also don't realize that jewish people aren't all white, middle class/upper middle class. It's why the settler colonialism narrative is so powerful, people want to side with the underdog and if all jewish people are white privileged Europeans, then they are seen to be the ones with the power. They don't know the history of the kibbutz, how the jewish homeland was created by refugees from the holocaust (though of course there has been many pointless deaths on both sides). And now I believe that some extremists are using zionism as an excuse for their personal gain like Jared Kushner who clearly sees waterside apartments in Gaza as a money making opportunity (plus the many ordinary people who also think they benefit from this). I know people who make aliyah to get the benefits and free education and to avoid getting a job (israeli government encourages this as they want to increase jewish population numbers and the israeli landlords also benefit). This has nothing to do with British jewish people obviously though I must say that if there is antisemitism plus a bleak economic climate, that is encouraging more young jewish people to go to Israel on such schemes and with such motives. Of course there is no free lunch, and these young people often end up penniless when the benefits run out and have to be helped out by family (and they are also more likely to be pushed out to the settlements).

Jewish people are actually very diverse. 5% of Jewish people in the UK are converts for example (which is actually quite low compared to other european countries but still 5% is a sizeable minority) and they come from diverse ethnic backgrounds; my conversion class had an Egyptian man, a black student amongst others. In addition to Yemeni and Ethiopian Jews.

Where have I, or anyone else on this thread, said that "Jewish people have it worse than other races"? I haven’t seen it anywhere, and I don’t think it’s true. All I have seen is someone saying that antisemitism sometimes comes from a different demographic than racism against Black people. That is a fact - I know Jews who have suffered antisemitic comments at Socialist Worker meetings, for example - but I disagree that it implies that antisemitism is worse than other racism, or that it "minimises other forms of racism". It is simply a factual observation. I did however partly agree with Diane Abbott's comments, in that Black people are in a sense permanent potential targets in predominantly white societies.

I object extremely strongly to the completely unfounded suggestion that I am a "racist or a racist enabler" and suggest that you either withdraw that vile assertion or justify it by quoting something I have said. Your ridiculously ultra-dramatic "I see you for what you are" would be funny if it wasn’t so offensive.

If you neither withdraw your offensive remarks nor justify them, I will have to ask for them to be removed as they break the site guidelines.

Poor kids. So upsetting to see this disgusting rise in anti semitism.

It's horrible, I didn't grow up in a city with many Jewish people. I was shocked to go to London and see guards outside synagogue etc and now I have to educate my kids. People should be free to worship and live as they wish without risk of harm. Also I'm mixed race, being black or mixed or a visibly different race from white isn't easy but that isn't really relevant. Being Jewish isn't easy either. It's not a competition.

This is awful. I am so sorry.
I never thought that I would see the rise of antisemitism in the UK in my lifetime. I thought those dark days were over.

If people suffer anti-semitism at left wing meetings (I won't bother mentioning that Trotskyists are objectively class traitors) then this isn't a different demographic at all, it is firmly in the demographic of moronic racists.

If the Jewish people being criticised are supporting Israeli government policy then it may or may not be anti-semitism depending how stupid the people at the meeting are. It is possible to disagree without being racist, not all achieve it.

Edit: it is also quite possible to support Israeli government policy without being Jewish, a fact people sometimes forget.

Yes, it is "possible to disagree without being racist". Shame not everyone on this thread seems to understand that.

I live where this incident happened. It’s just vile behaviour and not surprising sadly. I hope they have caught the animals that did this. I have so many Jewish people in my day to day life. Locally today I went to my hairdresser who’s Jewish as is the whole salon then my reflexologist also Jewish and tomorrow I’ll be getting my nails done in the Orthodox part of my area and, you know what I will put the world to rights with whoever is in there and have a right good gossip as well. It’s heartbreaking this is happening because at the end of the day we are all just people doing our best to live a peaceful healthy life. It’s really upsetting these are my neighbours and work mates. They just happen to be Jewish. It’s heartbreaking.

Please! This whole exchange started because of a comment of with that exact tone which the original poster then doubled down on. I elaborated on why that comment was offensive and why it could be offensive to others. You came in defense of (IMO) the indefensible, with your powder coated barbs to dismiss the views of a Black woman as to why something was racially offensive. Now you are back deliberately misquoting me whilst making demands and threats. Who is the dramatic one?

I hope the children are okay - what an awful experience for them.

But I voted Yabu because media coverage would be playing into the hands of the people who did this - it would make them feel important and give them the attention they so want...which is probably why the vile rag that is the DM has run the story

today I went to my hairdresser who’s Jewish as is the whole salon then my reflexologist also Jewish and tomorrow I’ll be getting my nails done

Busy busy busy 😂 Oh to live such a life.

Well it’s my break from chemo so I have to get everything done whilst I feel up to it. Plus family coming down at the weekend so I have to make some effort.

You.

i see, on checking to find out what on earth my "deliberate misquote" might be, that I did accidentally misquote you re your statement that "It's staggering that you can't see the issue with someone talking about antisemitism whilst unnecessarily bringing other races into it and minimising their oppression". So sorry, though I fail to see how it makes much difference. I absolutely do not see or accept that discussing sources of different manifestations of racism "minimises the oppression" of anyone.

The interesting point in your response is the "IMO" in "You came in defense of (IMO) the indefensible". You think it’s "indefensible" to say that "antisemitism comes from a different demographic to other forms of racism", I don’t. You think it is somehow racist. Yet in your defence of the ChatGPT words "might" and "could" you even actually said yourself that that is how the comment read to you, but "Another Black woman might see it in a different way". Yes. It’s called differing opinions. You have one opinion and I have another. That is the O in your "IMO". The "other Black woman" might even agree with me, for all you know.

I do not accept that you are the arbiter of whether Jews or others opposed to antisemitism are at liberty to talk about what they perceive as the differing demographics of purveyors of different brands of racism, without being accused of being racists or racist enablers themselves. You are a Black woman who considers it racially offensive. I am a Jewish woman who considers that it isn’t.

This whole issue of different forms of racism somehow being in competition with each other to claim the title of "worst" is utterly ridiculous.

So other than my accidental misquote, my last comment stands.