Hoping that Greg Wallace is forgiven, rather than cancelled

[Toodaloo1567]

Just a few concerns about this whole GW thing. Caveat: I do not condone behaviour that is illegal.

1. It does kind of look like a whole bunch of privileged TV luvvies are clamouring to denounce someone with really quite humble roots. I grew up in London and am constantly paranoid about how I come across to my mainly middle class colleagues. The thing is, middle class and privileged people operate by a set of unwritten rules. It’s like a full time job in itself trying to emulate their way of interacting, lest you be called out for not being ‘nice’ enough or doing something odd to them, like forgetting to start an email with ‘Hope you are well?’. Only, they won’t let you know to your face that you’ve accidentally been too sharp or direct, or maybe that your joke wasn’t woke enough - no, that stuff just goes straight to HR.
2. The equality act 2010 makes it the employer’s responsibility to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace. Why wasn’t all this lewd stuff dealt with? GW said that no one had made a formal complaint. Again, it makes me wonder whether the middle class luvvies just didn’t want to call things out at the time because it’s ‘beneath’ them to even consider doing something about it.
3. Even though he’s apologised, the public doesn’t think that’s good enough. It’s like only perfect people get to keep their careers. Woe betide you if you said something crass on twitter 10 years ago, or got caught speeding or something.

Of course, lots of you would want to shout me down over this, but you know what? We’re all mums here and many of us have sons. Boys and young men do and say crass things. GW hasn’t raped or systematically abused anyone. It doesn’t make what’s happened right, but I also don’t think it’s right that swarms of pitch-fork waving strangers get to play judge, jury and executioner. I’m a big fan of forgiveness. Am I the only one?

I think this is the most unreasonable post ever to appear on AIBU, OP. How can 18% of posters agree - God knows.

It's nothing to do with being MC or WC. I've met men across the spectrum and some have been decent and some horrible - it's not a class thing in my experience.

Gregg, it seems, just doesn't get it. You can write reams about what feminism means, but on the most fundamental level it's about respect. It's simply about treating women as human beings - not as objects, or as inferior entities. That's all Gregg needs to understand, but apparently he's reached very mature years without being able to grasp this concept.

The utter sleaziness of this creepy man. After rubbing his genitals against a woman he not only sees no need for a profuse apology but actually then insinuates that the experience has been a treat for her. I felt physically sick when I read about this incident. And his 'victims' were usually women whom he had power over - people whose jobs depended on not rocking the boat, or who suspected that their fragile tenure would not survive making complaints - I'm sure he knew that.

I know it's wrong to bring people's physical appearance into it but it's bizarre that he thought/thinks women are lusting after him. Gregg - you are not giving any woman a treat by pressing your underpant-less crotch against her.

I just never want to hear of him or see him again!

@Longma I never got as many catcalls or sexual comments from men as I did when I was 11-13 in school uniform.

The good old days? Nothing good about it. We had male teachers who everyone knew to avoid for the same reasons.

AllIsMerryAndBright · Today 05:24

MereNoelle · Yesterday 18:09
Whatever class you are, ‘don’t make sexual comments in the workplace’ is a fairly universal rule to abide by.
It's that simple 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes, it is. There's no excuse.

I would say to Gregg and people like him "Just why do you think anyone, least of all your female colleagues, are interested in your sexual preferences?"

The number of men I've come across who tell you who/what they like in terms of sexual attractiveness. Please keep it to yourself at work - no-one cares. If some male colleague tells me he likes the way a dress shows my figure...I'd be very, very unsettled and keep well away from him. These people think they're conferring a blessing on women. Ugh.

Oh look, another desperate pick-me who lacks basic comprehension skills.

There's a lot of it about, it seems.

I wish I could say young teenage girls in school uniform no longer get this sort of attention but unfortunately it’s still happening. Less so, but it’s not history.

IMHO because:

1. No one wants to be sexually harassed at work, whatever their class, gender, age or sexuality. Sexual harassment at work is unlawful. No one wants racism at work. No one should have to point it out to you. It’s not their job. You should know, especially if you’re a privileged, wealthy powerful man, a highly paid professional, doing it to (or in front of) women.
2. Many people made informal and formal complaints going back decades. Wallace was reportedly given formal warnings about it in 2017-18. He knew what sexual harassment is. He knew he was crossing a line. Reportedly, he carried on.
3. He didn’t initially apologise. He doubled down. He denied (D) his behaviour was problematic, downplaying the number of complaints. He attacked (A), by victim-blaming and belittling the women who’d complained or gone public. He reversed the victim and offender (RVO) by suggesting it was class discrimination to him and (when he did apologise the next day, clearly on legal/PR advice) blaming his attack on stress.

And this is where it becomes circular. Given the DARVO in (3), referring back to (1) and (2) is it any wonder people didn’t always challenge to his face or formally complain/go public before? We’ve seen how he responds, even in public with a load of heat on him. Arrogantly and without empathy. Denying, attacking and reversing victim and offender.

I’m proudly working class. Most working class men don’t behave like GW, even people much older than him. Because they know it’s wrong. I have sons. They’ve been brought up to have respect for women.

Granted, it’s not the worst thing happening in the world right now: men are doing far worse things. But he should still be held to account. Of course he can be forgiven. But forgiveness starts with a person admitting a problem, taking responsibility for their behaviour and its impact. Having humility and empathy. If they don’t, how can you forgive them?

I know you’re on the side of the women and I agree with your post, but a small clarification may be useful to counter this stupid class argument the OP (and GW) seeks to have.

Production assistants are on nowhere close to £40k a year.

They are some of the most junior staff, usually earning minimum wage or LLW. Often they are on a set weekly rate that, given the hours they do - 12+ hour shoot days are the norm - dip below NMW (illegal of course, but who is going to complain?).

In addition, almost everyone working in tv is a freelancer - so you might work 6 or 9 months a year, if you’re lucky. These months will be made up of jobs varying in length from a day or 2, to several months on a big production like Masterchef.

In this industry, reputation is everything and at a junior level, reputation is not about how good you are at your job - plenty of people can make good tea and corral contributors in a professional way - it’s more about whether your personality fits within the team.

This is just one of the reasons women feel unable to speak out.

What a load of rubbish, OP. And you sound like you have a real chip on your shoulder. So I'm going to assume some projection is going on here?

I grew up dirt poor and went into what was a very middle-class profession. I never had any problem getting along with anyone. So to make out poor Gregg was just struggling to be understood by the mean girls - hahahahaha!

I very much doubt that Gregg Wallace ever considered anything about himself to be 'humble', and he showed his contempt for the middle classes (specifically women of course) in what he said.

He hasn't apologised for the things he did, and even his 'apology' for what he said was not an apology . Apologies don't come with an 'if'.

My son has never said or done a 'crass' thing in his life, and nor has his dad or my dad. Because they were brought up by decent people, and thus taught to have respect for others - no less for women. That's nothing to do with class and everything to do with misogyny

It has nothing to do with class, and yabvu to make this about class. It was everything to do with misogyny, which continues to flourish - largely perpetuated by men who should know better and female apologists for their behaviour - women like you, op.

My dad is working class, a plumber/ builder by trade. His parents would have rightly been ashamed had he behaved like GW. He has three daughters, and the thought of someone like GW treating them like pieces of meat makes his skin crawl.

I am likewise dismayed about your assertion that many of us are mums to boys. I despise that 'boys will be boys' attitude, and as a mother to a son (and a daughter), I find your defence of it absurd. It's mums (and actually, more importantly in many respects dads) of sons who need to ensure these attitudes do not prevail in future generations - whatever 'class' they are.

Your post is all at once a victim blaming, classist (as much against working as middle class), misogynistic and feeble excuse for absolutely appalling behaviour. I wouldn't be surprised if you're actually an Incel in 'disguise'.

I'm working class but I would never confuse sexual harassment with something outside of middle class social norms or a set of 'unwritten rules' as you put it

This. I’m working class too, my family were poor as piss. I did have to learn all the ( stupid) middle class rules, mores and ways of behaving when I went to Uni. But I didn’t have to learn ‘‘sexually harassing people is wrong’. And, importantly, nor did my brother.

My dad is working class, a plumber/ builder by trade. His parents would have rightly been ashamed had he behaved like GW. He has three daughters, and the thought of someone like GW treating them like pieces of meat makes his skin crawl.

So was mine, Whataclusterfuck, and he was what might be called in those days 'a perfect gentlemen'. He would never in a million years treat women crudely, disrespectfully or with contempt. He might have been a bit old-fashioned in a chivalrous way, which would ruffle some feathers nowadays, but he was not a misogynist and didn't have the crude, primitive mindset which some people on this thread seem to think is typical of WC men and applies to them all.

No, it's not being WC - it's being a badly-raised, entitled, crude-minded caveman and there's no excuse for it (ever, really, but in 2024???).

Of course. But I don't think this is case should be the top story in the news. There are far worse crimes against women happening in the news on the same day that are getting less attention. I think it dilutes the issue.

It should not be the number one story in the news. Not sure why collectively we are are feeling such outrage about a sexist inappropriate man who hosts a cooking show. There are far worse stories currently in the news that are not getting the same profile. Why does Kier Starmer feel the need to comment on this and not stories of actual crimes against women - rape, murder, GHB. Maybe he did but it didn't get the media coverage.

There are things that you might banter about with mates (imo banter is a 2 way thing, where both parties mutually engage) but this is not a level playing field, one person is in a position of power and it's a workplace.

The problem is saying it's only banter, it's how WC men behave, they can't take a joke etc etc is minimising or excusing misogynistic and sexist behaviour. If it's not called out, then it becomes tolerated, accepted behaviour.
DD (18) complained at home, for probably a year about "horrible misogynistic boys" at school when she was a younger teen , (and the girls, and some teachers called them out in class) and they were all folowers of an influencer called AndrewTate. I'm afraid I was quite ignorant of him until the whole Greta Thunberg incident and following media attention came to light.

But it's depressing that those kind of attitudes are not only being seen as an acceptable point of view , but also when called out, it's glossed over, minimised or completely ignored.

Yawn.

More badly disguised MRA bullshit.

The poor menz... Can't even sexually harass Karens these days. Life is tough.

That is basically the jist of what is being said.

Not sure why collectively we are are feeling such outrage about a sexist inappropriate man who hosts a cooking show.

Because it's symptomatic of a wider problem and we're bloody sick of it!

Maybe if GW had not said what he did, the story would have been less high profile. But he ended up highlighting the fact that women of a certain age are really disliked by some men, because we dare to go on existing.

Fail Today:

The contestant, who did not want to be identified, says the BBC had known about claims against Wallace as far back as 2013 and did nothing - and now accused them of going too far in scrapping the Christmas shows and disappointing fans.

She claimed that the corporation ‘knew exactly what he was like’ when they hired him and were ‘all laughing along with him’ when he repeatedly made crude innuendos and gestures on set.

She said his nickname on set amongst producers was ‘Dirk’ after Dirk Diggler from film Boogie Nights about a porn star from the 1970s and said he was encouraged by staff to make risqué sexual innuendos.

She claimed the Wallace was guilty of nothing more than telling a few ill-considered ‘dad jokes’.

She told MailOnline: ‘This is classic BBC. They knew about these allegations as far back as 2012 and sat on their hands and did nothing. Now they are over-reacting and scrapping the Christmas special.

‘And what about the rest of the series? Are they going to not show that too, which robs the current contestants of their grand finale, their moment to shine.

AND

She went on: ‘He was never predatory in any way, a typical old school guy making really bad dad jokes and to be honest, John Torode was exactly the same,’ she added.

‘There were instances where I was on camera being spoken to and they were both standing behind the camera, gesturing that they were both masturbating and it wasn’t just Gregg it was John too and everyone in the production team was laughing and joking with them.

‘I think knowing his name was Dirk on set was a pretty good indication that they knew he was making inappropriate jokes - not that I found anything inappropriate.

‘There was never any mention of anyone feeling offended or feeling unsafe or that either of them were being predatory. It was just two older blokes having a great time on a job they loved with a production team they were really close with all having a laugh.’

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14153957/masterchef-contestant-condemns-bbc-gregg-wallace-christmas-special.html

Oh dear John. Is this why you are keeping quiet?!

But it also has a story that's a lot worse.

A former MasterChef contestant has accused Gregg Wallace of thrusting his groin at her face three times as she crouched in front of an oven - as the shamed BBC presenter is hit with a series of fresh allegations.

Emma Phillips-Jennings, who featured on the hit Beeb show in 2009, claims Wallace carried out the disturbing act while making a sick joke about her 'father's meat'.

AND

She claimed the presenter behaved inappropriately with her as she prepared a stuffed trout dish - only for the scene to allegedly be edited out.

The former contestant, then aged 29, revealed that Wallace asked her if she learned to cook from her mother and she said her father was the chef because her mother was Jewish and lived on a kibbutz where she had other set jobs.

Recalling the exchange, she told The Sun: 'I said she had not even seen raw meat until she met my father. As soon as I said that, Gregg then said, "Yeah and he then showed her his meat".

'He then thrust his groin towards me three times as I crouched down at the oven. It was a low oven so it meant he was near my face.'

Ms Phillips-Jennings said she was stunned that no one pulled Wallace up on the comments. She was left feeling degraded that he had imitated her father thrusting at her.

The ex-contestant said it was like something out of Little Britain rather than a cooking show.

Ms Phillips-Jennings alleges that the footage was removed to protect Wallace who showed 'no shame'.

The Telegraph previously reported how a former colleague claimed Wallace held her head and thrust his body towards her when she was kneeling in front of him to clean a mark on his trousers.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14154653/masterchef-gregg-wallace-contestant-crouch-face.html?ico=article_preview_xp_mobile

Not sure why collectively we are are feeling such outrage about a sexist inappropriate man who hosts a cooking show.

Because for so many of us it’s personal. There’s barely a single woman who hasn’t experienced sexual harassment to some degree, especially those of us who are older. It’s brought memories we wish we didn’t have flooding back for a lot of us.

I'm actually astounded at the number of women who are standing up for him, on here and on other social media.

Yep! And it's no wonder that women and girls are having to fight this crap and probably will continue to have to do so with attitudes like theirs making it harder for all of us, just so they can think they look cool down with the guys.

I believe the comments he is accused of making are inappropriate and unnecessary. However, saying a contestant's food is rubbish and not edible. Well, so what!

I'm working class, my father and brother are working class. My uncles are all working class.

They would never dream of talking to women in the way Wallace did.

He didn't speak that way because he was working class. He did it because he's a sexist, misogynist who thinks women are there for his gratification only and has zero respect for them.

Not sure why collectively we are are feeling such outrage about a sexist inappropriate man who hosts a cooking show.

Because it looks a lot like a whole bunch of people not only covered up and enabled his behaviour as normal but they also seem to have encouraged him.

This was sexual harassment which was institutionally both recognised but also seen as entertaining without any regard to the women working on the show or contestants on the show.

That makes them very much liable legally if there is enough evidence.

The last story above seems to suggest that Wallace was actively filmed thrusting his groin into a female contestants face but this was edited out.

If that's true and they've still got the rushes...

His comments are not because he’s “working class”. His comments are because he’s a childish twat whose fame has gone to his head and whose behaviour has gone unchallenged for years.