Hoping that Greg Wallace is forgiven, rather than cancelled

[Toodaloo1567]

Just a few concerns about this whole GW thing. Caveat: I do not condone behaviour that is illegal.

1. It does kind of look like a whole bunch of privileged TV luvvies are clamouring to denounce someone with really quite humble roots. I grew up in London and am constantly paranoid about how I come across to my mainly middle class colleagues. The thing is, middle class and privileged people operate by a set of unwritten rules. It’s like a full time job in itself trying to emulate their way of interacting, lest you be called out for not being ‘nice’ enough or doing something odd to them, like forgetting to start an email with ‘Hope you are well?’. Only, they won’t let you know to your face that you’ve accidentally been too sharp or direct, or maybe that your joke wasn’t woke enough - no, that stuff just goes straight to HR.
2. The equality act 2010 makes it the employer’s responsibility to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace. Why wasn’t all this lewd stuff dealt with? GW said that no one had made a formal complaint. Again, it makes me wonder whether the middle class luvvies just didn’t want to call things out at the time because it’s ‘beneath’ them to even consider doing something about it.
3. Even though he’s apologised, the public doesn’t think that’s good enough. It’s like only perfect people get to keep their careers. Woe betide you if you said something crass on twitter 10 years ago, or got caught speeding or something.

Of course, lots of you would want to shout me down over this, but you know what? We’re all mums here and many of us have sons. Boys and young men do and say crass things. GW hasn’t raped or systematically abused anyone. It doesn’t make what’s happened right, but I also don’t think it’s right that swarms of pitch-fork waving strangers get to play judge, jury and executioner. I’m a big fan of forgiveness. Am I the only one?

That's really not the same as a rude joke tho is it. Being intimidating to the elderly is unforgivable and likely to have life long impacts on the poor old ladies confidence and could be life ending.

On the other hand an out of taste joke which will be forgotten about tomorrow should not have a lasting impact on anyone even if it's not to your taste. As an adult you should be able to go erm sorry don't find it funny you're not the kind of guy for me. We watch master chief and so far haven't heard anything more than a brave off the cuff comment.

I'm very northern and also into fine dinning, we've had group parties at some very exclusive restaurants and openly discussed sex amongst us.

Ramsey over use of the F word makes me more uncomfortable than Greggs tart comment.

Apparently, he did grope and touch people.

@YourLovingSnake allegedly he has done some of those things

I'm starting to wonder what the rate of illiteracy is in this country?!

He potentially did.

He was warned previously and continued to do it.

YOU are part of the problem

Nice try Daily Mail.

On AIBU it’s quite high always has been.

I agree with you on point 2, if nothing else. Someone senior involved in producing one of his shows should have taken him aside early on and told him in no uncertain terms that sexual comments made people uncomfortable and he needed to stop or there would be serious consequences for his career. Most of the stuff he's being accused of was done quite openly in front of the crew or even on camera. Why has everyone suddenly realised now that it was unacceptable?

Well he did. He groped. He touched. He discussed the sex acts he liked to indulge in with his wife, with strangers. He described something he was eating, as 'tasting like my aunt's cunt'. He asked a women he didn't know, who is a lesbian about her sex life.

THIS IS NOT THE BEHAVIOUR OF GOOD MEN. GOOD MEN DON'T DO THIS.

And I grew up in the 70s/80s/90s. I know what inappropriate behaviour is, and GW is a poster boy for it.

Good men don't behave this way. Me and my male boss have great banter. He doesn't feel the need to ask me about my sex life or walk around with a sock on his cock ffs. What is wrong with some of you?

What I don’t understand is how Chris Evan’s and John Barrowman both behaved in a vile way but got away with it. Perhaps because Evan’s said nothing and Barrowman apologised for the behaviour whereas Gregg Wallace doubled down.

You and he have brought class in to this, which is not only irrelevant but looks like an attempt to deflect from and minimise his behaviour. This is not about class, but about respecting the other person. When someone acts as though they think, completely without evidence, that another person is looking down on them, that is a projection on to the other person that does not belong to them but is done by the person doing the projecting - in this case you. So middle class people make you feel inadequate in some way - that is on you, not them unless they are actually behaving badly towards you. This adds up to you being an inverted snob.
GW is using the "I am just a cockney barrow boy" approach and dissing "middle class women", as a way of excusing his actions.
But it's about power imbalances, not class ones.
As to forgiveness - fine, but new allegations coming out today suggest some of what he did was criminal.

Boys and young men do and say crass things Do they? Yes. Should they? NO.

The parents of boys who say crass things should put a stop to it sharpish as teaching boys to respect women will mean better futures for the boys as well as girls and women. Men can learn as well, but as long as there are wastes of space like GW there's no reason for them to stop their bad behaviour.

I really do despair.

He ensured his own cancellation with that dreadful self pitying video.

When you abuse people , abuse your position of power , and get called out for it and have your life ruined because of it - you are still not a victim.

I am frustrated at how many people don't understand power imbalance. I make filthy dirty jokes with my peer group - but not with the interns or with people who are more junior than me, because it isn't fair to them. I work in a very hierarchical environment, where people can be ordered to do things, and disciplined if they refuse. That environment means I could get away with behaving very poorly towards the people below me in the hierarchy- and that's unacceptable.

Men who are consistently sexually inappropriate at work don’t do it because they’re crass or it’s a slip of the tongue; it’s about power. They enjoy making women and/or men feel uncomfortable and getting away with it.

I’m from a big working class family; my brothers and cousins love a crass joke but they don’t enjoy making people uncomfortable through their behaviour and they’d be quick to apologise if they did.

My heart doesn’t bleed for arrogant men who’ve run out of road like Gregg Wallace. Everyone should be able to do their job without being made to feel uncomfortable, regardless of their class or where they work.

@CasperGutman some people did complain and nothing happened

Well the doubling down might well be what did it for him. Too arrogant even to lay low for a bit then ease back in with a nice ‘making buns for children on the cancer ward’ sorta programme that’s worked for so many of the rest of them. Master of his own fate. I like this for him.

Well I see the OP just posted and ran away. Not exactly willing to answer any questioning then.

You might think the stuff below is acceptable in the work place, but it isn't.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj64237v6zo

"He brushed past me at the checkout, and touched my bum with his waist and penis and laughed and said “oooh you liked that didn’t you”," she said.

Sarah says they then went into a lift where he pulled her, and other members of his group, into a group hug. "When doing this, he put his hand on my bottom and groped me. It made me feel gross, it was horrible."

When she started fastening his bow tie, she says she noticed his trousers were "partially lowered". She did not see how this happened. "His pubic hair was on show, where you can see the top part of his penis, and he was wearing no boxers underneath."

Ad this, and then say he didn’t grope anyone, @YourLovingSnake:

He brushed past me at the checkout, and touched my bum with his waist and penis and laughed and said “oooh you liked that didn’t you”," she said.
When she started fastening his bow tie, she says she noticed his trousers were "partially lowered". She did not see how this happened. "His pubic hair was on show, where you can see the top part of his penis, and he was wearing no boxers underneath."
Sarah says they then went into a lift where he pulled her, and other members of his group, into a group hug. "When doing this, he put his hand on my bottom and groped me. It made me feel gross, it was horrible.

I used to work for the council as a social worker & there was one manager who'd always be making comments that were I'm sure designed to make people uncomfortable. It goes on everywhere.
I think GW has been part of a lads club but hasn't quite caught up with what's not ok now. But it was tolerated historically. I'm not a fan of cancelling people because in the end people can be educated.

Indecent exposure is sexual abuse. With the same potential trauma effects as the other things you mentioned. If your daughter told you someone had exposed his penis to her without her consent would you minimise it? If she started to show symptoms of being affected by it would you tell her that "honey, you weren't raped, stop being a baby." Would you ? No, of course not. Non abusive parents don't invalidate their kids or adult children like that.

This kind of thing is not harmless "bantz."

Sarah Everard case, anyone?

I think that times have changed. I'm the same age as GregG, and this behaviour was fairly standard when I was younger. I don't think that the odious creep has recognised this and not changed his behaviour.

Completely agree - that video showed his real views in black & white - how he thought that was a good idea, I’ll never know