Am I expecting too much from DH?

[Bitmorebroken]

Post blazing row with DH about the same stuff it’s always about - division of labour, childcare, house work, the usual. I am apparently crazy, mental and schizophrenic with a deluded sense of entitlement.

DH thinks I can’t understand or see how much he does for us but I don’t think he does nearly enough. Please help before I ending up saying something to him that I might regret aka I think he is a total waste of space and I’d be better off alone.

I work 4 days a week in school hours, he works full time, 5 days a week. He drops kids to school as I start earlier in order to finish earlier to pick them up by 5. Already I “only” work part-time so I’ve supposedly got loads of time.

I do all cleaning (all of it - he’s never so much as wiped anything ever), all cooking (he might heat up leftovers for himself but he’d largely eat them cold), all laundry (including his numerous sports stuff), bedding, towels, all school admin, get all their clothes, keep on top of everything single thing to do with them, birthday parties, deal with all family birthdays, buy all presents etc and wrap everything when it’s needed, have the full mental load when it come to kids (school welfare, any issues, homework, their development, managing their play dates etc, what they need on what days for school, all school WhatsApp’s etc), do gardening, clean and put away stuff after summer, do all Christmas decorations myself etc, do house diy, painting, any gardening outside of cutting the grass which we have a neighbour’s son do, elf on the shelf… all of it.

DH takes the bins out (after I’ve emptied all the house bins etc - I mean literally pulls them out), does car admin, looks after finances (but I’m not actually sure what this means on a day to day basis, but apparently it takes hours), sometimes does some homework with kids, does 2 or 3 bedtimes a week, takes the dog on a daily brief walk and takes the kids to their weekend activities.

In my mind this isn’t fair. He plays so much sport and I do nothing. I mean 6 matches / pt sessions a week. He sees his family. I don’t have time to see mine ever. He thinks it’s all completely fair because he earns more than I do and I work part time. But honestly 4 days might as well be full time. And on those 4 days I only start earlier so I can get to schools by 5pm after school club.

It doesn’t feel fair to me but DH tells me how lucky I am that he does so much. If this is a man doing “so much”, then how does everyone else cope????

The Fair Play Deck: A Couple's Conversation Deck for Prioritizing What's Important https://amzn.eu/d/00op5Vn

This might help?

But the main thing I would say is in the insults. Thats the thing that sticks out as unfixable.

My H does quite a bit round the house but he is also defensive and difficult to talk to about this stuff. So he does the cooking every night but if I asked for help with something he would blow up in my face.

I guess what I'm saying is it's less about splitting each task by minute and dividing it up but about having a respectful conversation where you both try to understand it from each other's perspective.

I hope to leave him in 2025 and it won't be about the washing up. It will be able the fact I'm not allowed to bring up the washing up or indeed anything like that, without facing insults and sulking. It's a deal breaker.

This
He doesn't care about the Op , that's the crux of it
No list is going to change that

It's abuse

Get the fair play cards. Go through the cards with him so he can see how much you do. Then delegate chores like his laundry to him. If he keeps saying oh but I earn more, ask him if he would prefer to pay child support

Was this not discussed before marriage/having kids?

DH works full time 8:30-5:30 and sometimes extra at night. He does all the manly tasks at home all the DIY and aervices the cars/fixes any faults. He does the shopping weekley he does some taaks at night time.i go to bed at 9pm to be up early for the kids and see to DS2 who is a baby and up 3/4 times it night.
DH will hang a load of washing, wash dinner plates once I go up with the kids. He helps with bath time twice a week and he reada and tucks in eldest every night 20mins.

I do not work at all. In the days I look after the kids, homeschool eldest, I clean the house twice a week, I batch cook on the Sunday. I take DC to all groups and activities, I deal with all the admin day to day.

Not sure on your dynamics if name calling is allowed byt that would not stand in my marriage. We do nit name call or swear or saying anything insulting to one another about anything.

I agree with pps who say you need to take time to see family and friends and do your own activities.

In my house division of labour is really excellent. We both work ft and it’s mad busy. Dh does get frustrated when I don’t do enough, but I am menopausal and I cannot go at the pace I used to! And I get frustrated when dh doesn’t see the mental load of planning everything as a real task. But we do fine overall.

We have a large A3 planner in the kitchen where we both see what’s coming up. We review it every weekend, and plan tfor changes in my dh’s (very fluid) work schedule.

I do the meal planning, cooking and grocery shop, keep fridges cleaned and stocked. So if dh is taking dc2 to a activity, I’ll see it on the planner and organise meals around that - I’ll shop for snacks and packed lunch but dh will assemble food on the day and pack the bags/ organise kit.

We each take the time we need to socialise and have exercise - in my case, out of respect for dh’s efforts, I swim 4 times a week at 6am when the kids are still asleep.

A typical conversation in my house would be;

“I am going to meet with my friend on Saturday next month, is it ok if I add to the planner and you will need to take dc2 along to dc1’s activity too I’m afraid. Dc2 can do their math homework while they wait for dc1 to finish.”

”oh ok I’ll take the kids to MacDs afterwards as I need to pop into B&Q next door anyway.”

No screaming or shouting or nastiness.Your dh is being a real bastard.

Absolutely bizarre how men equate their self importance and value in life to their income. Equally how you diminish your value based on your part time wage.
you are both adults one is not worth more than the other because of their job.
family life means both need to put equal time into running a household.

I'm shocked that this update hasn't blown up the thread 😉

It is Mumsnet law that (when working Mon-Fri) all parents get one lie-in each per weekend. And you're not wrong, OP, it comes back to downtime.

7am is early but as you've said, he's up at 7am doing a thing that he has chosen and is leisure time for him. Both mornings, you're on call for when the kids wake up/need feeding/clothing/hair/teeth brushing/adjudicating over who's picking what to watch/eat or spilled juice literally everywhere.

You should also have a choice one 7am at the weekend to say "I'm going to have a lie-in and then I'm going to a class that I like or a long walk or to see my mum".

I'm also surprised to see the number of PP telling you how to just better organise yourself (as if you've not tried that). They are right in that there are no points for martyring yourself, however, they are ignoring the reality that you are doing three full-time jobs.

You're a wife & mother, a housekeeper & personal assistant, and an 80% full-time employee. By the sounds if it, he's a 100% employee (with hours that he "steals" from the evening and family time) and a sports enthusiast.

Do not beat yourself up further about AIBU or can I do this better. Either he picks up his fair share or you decide if you want to spend the next 10-20-30 years being his maid.

Is that you Dobby?

Of course he's arguing with you and telling you you're mad.

He does whatever he wants, when he wants and has someone running around after him and taking care of his children.

He wants to maintain the status quo because it greatly benefits him. Why would he want anything to change?

He wants you back in your box.

If he thinks there is a fair division of labour offer to swap for a week!

I think the ops post sums up why most relationships break down. Her dh does not respect her, yet I guarentee that if she took on a full time job which paid more than he gets paid, and meant her working more hours than him he would also moan about that.
Judging from posters on here and the couples I know well the only relationships that work involve either:
No children. The women I know have good careers and their dh does as much as they do. However there is no emotional blackmail regarding children. If the man doesn't pull his weight then he knows he is a gonna.
Woman working very little hours, often retiring very early. Of all the couples I know who seam happy and have DCs, I can’t think of one where the woman works full time. Most hardly work at all so they do the vast majority of housework.
Thinking about my work colleagues, all the female bosses without any exception rely heavily on their parents- well their mother to be exact. Every single one of them uses their mother for childcare at some time or other and every single one of them has a husband.
Quite depressing really.
Apart from this I know lots of women who upped and left their lazy bastard of a husband and not one of them regrets it.

Great article by Rachel Hewitt on this subject and how “letting things fail” isn’t usually a viable option

rachelhewitt.substack.com/p/how-to-manage-the-mental-load-of?utm_source=substack&publication_id=1630103&post_id=152506878&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&utm_campaign=email-share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true&r=79sx2&triedRedirect=true

Sounds like you are both busy. Also seems like he doesn't 'see' things like crumbs or can ignore them unlike you which doesn't help. But he is better at strategic planning.

I would get a cleaner and arrange to visit or invite your family over. I think it might be nice if you started going to a yoga class once a week especially if you walk to it to get outside.

He isn’t better at strategic planning, the reason he can go to the gym and see his parents so much is because OP is doing all the grunt work at home.

What level of strategic planning does it take to pull the bins once a week?

These posts are always the same. Unless they have 500 kids some of these chores are daily and some will be at random times.
Already we've had the divorce posters. Guess what-divorce means earning more and doing all the chores listed above alone.

Sounds like you are both busy. Also seems like he doesn't 'see' things like crumbs or can ignore them unlike you which doesn't help. But he is better at strategic planning.

Christ. Believe me, as a full time-working single parent with a long commute, I don't bloody 'see crumbs' either. Crumbs really are the least of it (although yes, it did wind me up that if he cooked a) it would be just for him and b) there would be stuff all over everything everywhere), and I'm a master of strategic planning.

I just don't think a strategy that would give a partner no lie-ins, and where she's doing the vast, majority of the housework and working nearly full time while swan off to do sport and hangout with my parents is a strategy I could live with myself employing!

She is already doing the chores alone. Did you miss the past where he does no cleaning at all and no cooking?

OP would be much better off not having this additional man child to look after.

How many birthday parties does she have to plan per year? How many birthday gifts does she need to buy? How many doctors appointments in a year?

This was a really good read, thank you!

There’s a lot to reply to, sorry, it’s tricky at work.

It’s hard to hear that I need to organise myself better, I’m not sure how much more I can organised I can be. I also think that the odd person who has suggested that because I have 5 extra hours than him on my non working day that I should be able to do everything and not expect him to lift a finger. Yes on that day I should cook and clean and do school runs , but the other 4 working days, he should be doing more.

I do think it’s about priorities though and not so much looking at the hours spent on jobs we are doing but the hours of free time each of us has.

I’ve was thinking so much about leaving things that aren’t for me to him like some have suggested - his laundry, his food, his plates by the sink etc. But the only person who will be suffering there is me, I’ll have to walk past all the stuff he hasn’t done. And I think this would make me more cross.

I sent him some of the articles and had a conversation / argument about free time. But I didn’t bring it up at the right time. I’ll try again later this evening.

What’s on my mind the most though, is those of you saying that his attitude / language would lead you to leave. You’re right that he isn’t receptive to change or to see how hard I find things without turning it into a “competition” where it’s always tougher for him. And in any argument he always tells me how lucky I’ve got it, how any woman would be lucky to have him, how my life is so easy etc etc.

I am starting to think nothing will change though. He won’t change and, it seems from most people’s view, I’m not being unreasonable to expect him to do more around the house / with the children. 😢

How many birthday parties does she have to plan per year? How many birthday gifts does she need to buy? How many doctors appointments in a year?

Lets think about that. I can't see how many kids, lets say 2. Lets also assume that they each have one sibling, 2 parents each, and the siblings also have a couple of kids each (personally I have more family than that, but it's not an unreasonable assumption) - so 14 birthday gifts. Then non-family birthdays - 30 kids in a class, invited to say 5 parties per child (more if younger, fewer when older in my experience), so another 10 presents there for 2/month. Plus cards, wrapping, arranging dropoff etc. It's not daily, but it's not insignificant - and we haven't even mentioned Christmas when she does most of it all over again.

Dentist for everyone twice a year, so that's another medical appointment per month - even if everyone's perfectly healthy

Gardening and DIY similarly not daily, but not insignificant either - nor Uniform and clothes shopping (takes me at least a day once a year - plus top-ups when things are lost/ruined/grown out of)

Playdates - depends how social her kids are - could be every week.

School admin - I have something I have to respond to or provide most weeks, plus I support the kids in their homework, buy revision books for exams, music lessons etc.

Then all the cleaning and washing, packing school bags/making sure things are clean - that is daily (I try to do it only once a week so I'm not frantic in the mornings, but often don't manage it)

She's overworked in comparison - it's more than 1 working day/week's work.

My eldest does Rugby, and keeping up with the kit washing alone is 2 nasty loads a week. When I split with ex, I was shocked at how much less washing there was alone - how long the kitchen stayed clean in comparison, how much less I had to buy in the shop (at least until my eldest became a teenager)

Yes, you have to do it all alone, yes, it's relentless, but when your partner is a drag rather than a help, the lightness makes up for it.

What’s on my mind the most though, is those of you saying that his attitude / language would lead you to leave. You’re right that he isn’t receptive to change or to see how hard I find things without turning it into a “competition” where it’s always tougher for him. And in any argument he always tells me how lucky I’ve got it, how any woman would be lucky to have him, how my life is so easy etc etc.*
I am starting to think nothing will change though. He won’t change and, it seems from most people’s view, I’m not being unreasonable to expect him to do more around the house / with the children. 😢
It's summed up by the lack of love and care towards you.
He doesn't care that you are stressed and overwhelmed
This is the relationship killer
You are a Domestic appliance not a cherished partner
Those saying she will have to earn and do chores
Yep but I find even my lovely DH makes most of the mess, if he's away it's much tidier plus it's no life to live each day soaked in resentment.

@BearOnABlanket Exactly what you’ve written. But our extended family is a bit larger and both kids are in classes of 30 each so there are parties and play dates etc. You’re absolutely spot on. These things and time and effort it takes all adds up.

OP I think it may be time to visualise or plan how things would look if you did leave your husband. How often would he have the kids. Would your life be easier or harder without him?
how would the house and finances be dealt with?
You may in fact find life easier if he has to take sole responsibility to the kids some of the time.
working four days but having to do the bulk of the load at home is exhausting. It may still be hard work if you left him but you wouldn’t waste energy on resentment.

"What’s on my mind the most though, is those of you saying that his attitude / language would lead you to leave. You’re right that he isn’t receptive to change or to see how hard I find things without turning it into a “competition” where it’s always tougher for him. And in any argument he always tells me how lucky I’ve got it, how any woman would be lucky to have him, how my life is so easy etc etc."

I think you should take him up on this - see how mush easier your life is without him.

SlipperyLizard posted a substack link to a post about "letting things fail" is not necessarily the magic wand that people think it is. Men are unlikely to automatically pick up the slack if the absence of labour does not directly affect their comfort and lifestyle. She points out that it is usually the kids who suffer as most of the life admin/mental load is linked to them.

More importantly, she seconds what a lot of PP have said how about shirking the domestic load is a display of contempt for their partners and a lack of respect for their family life. She points out that very few (no?) men would feign incompetence to their boss or say "you're just innately better at sales calls", but happily say this to their partners about doctor's appointments or laundry loads.

Finally, I missed the point in your first para about the name calling. I am angry and shocked on your behalf. You are not "crazy, mental and schizophrenic with a deluded sense of entitlement", you are a woman who wants the father of her children to contribute equally to family life and the work that it entails.