"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

[MrBungle]

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

Lol, if the BBC isn't showing an image of the transwoman I can only imagine that in the Isla Bryson sense their image won't be assisting their cause.

Mixed spaces don't work for 'everybody'. Some people have religious, cultural, trauma, navigating puberty or a host or reasons for not wanting to share intimate facilities with the other sex.

But there is no going back. Transwomen exist now in large(ish) numbers. Saying no they can't use the female toilets isn't going to stop them from using the female toilets. They believe they are entitled to use them so they will use. It will never be possible to guarantee there won't be a male in the women's bathrooms anymore because it is not possible to sex-check people at the door. Hence why I said there needs to be individual cubicles for people who want definitive proof that they are not in the same space as a male.

@nonbinaryfinery you say you don't feel safe around men OR women. That suggests that something traumatic has happened to you that you need to deal with therapeutically.
If you're non binary, you've made a conscious choice to reject gender stereotypes. But there is no third sex. You're either biologically male or biologically female. You can't choose this, it's just reality. Androgyny has been a thing for many years. Why now has this become something more that's trying to push ageist scientific reality?
Unless you tell people you're non binary there is no reason anyone would know. They will just see you as what you are biologically. A man or a woman. So you use the space that's there for what you are biologically.
Or, as you say, use a third space if that makes you feel safer. There's certainly no reason for you to use the space that's there for the opposite of your biological reality.

You're never going to get a personal private toilet for one that you can tote around with you everywhere without exception, no.

If you cannot tolerate either a single sex or mixed sex space then yes, I guess you are going to be very limited as to where you can go. I don't know what you expect services to do about that.

I can’t read any of that.

Ah so basically this is the 'males will just do what they want anyway argument'?

Thank goodness that's not how safeguarding normally works.

When it comes to single sex facilities the decent males stay out so the others stand out.

We can come to our own conclusions about the motives of those who don't adhere to basic decency when it comes to the privacy & safety of female people.

Hopefully this will be clearer

If it’s made illegal
If we have more police
It can be dealt with

Or just trans people with a little bit of respect for the sexes might work too!

They believe they are entitled to use them so they will use.

Many people believe that, for example, they are allowed to shoplift. Or shout abuse at women in the street. Doesn't make it right.

SinnerBoy, because that suggests they aren't actually the woman they think they are. However a penis is a penis and a womb is a womb and there's no getting away from that!

Pfff, away with your logic and reasonable thinking. Don't you know that the only two genders that matter are men and men who call themselves women?

Isn't that the whole issue? Males believing they are entitled to use female spaces because they consider themselves to be women. People who believe themselves to be women are not going to use the men's bathrooms. Saying "no men, women only" doesn't apply to them because they are women and they don't care if anyone disagrees.

🥴
not really

Are they so horrible it would be inappropriate for you to transcribe.
I don’t do social media ( it’s just MN for me ) so I have no idea how horrible people can be on those sites

I've done my research, I continue to do it and I follow a number of people with DSDs on X. You are going against everything the community has a clear consensus on and you are pushing a term that is misleading. There is no third sex. If you tell us the DSD you claim to have, we will know what sex that corresponds to. Everyone with a DSD is male or female and that's why the term intersex is rejected: because it is untrue and misleading and insulting.

I've done my research and anyone else who does theirs will find that what I'm saying is true. If anyone doesn't wish to research, they could just ask themselves what's more likely: that there is a third sex, which would necessitate a third gamete that has not been found in 1.2 billion years, and would justify the term intersex AND that the anonymous person with a TRA agenda on Mumsnet does indeed have a DSD (rare enough itself) and goes against all the consensus of the DSD community to push that agenda by spreading misinformation...

...or not?

Well you can hardly think it appropriate to ask TW to show their genitals, so how on earth could that be policed?

Maybe we need a full body scanning devise at point of entry.
Anyone without the correct sex parts and the doors won’t open.

HollyKnight, they already exist they're called ladies toilets!!!

@StandingSideBySide Heres a link to the website. Mainly extremely violent threats many of which are descriptions of how they will use their girl dick to rape women

terfisaslur.com/

You're not getting it. Even if it is made illegal, how can you prove the person entering the bathroom is a male? That would only work if you know the person personally and know for a fact that they are male.

I haven’t scrolled down that.
Thats truly frightening and utter disgusting
Why hasn’t that been taken down

Are you actually serious?

We can correctly sex a male at a glance with nearly 100% accuracy.

Most trans women are pretty obviously male.

The social contract that males stayed out has worked through the ages. We can very easily reinstate it.

I agree completely, but unless Mumsnet has changed its policy this term is banned, and if someone reports you for using it you will get a warning from MNHQ and your post will be deleted.

Erm, because people have eyes? And have generally managed tell a male from a female since the beginning of time, despite ‘costume’.

But if it is a unisex area nobody would have reason to question what is in your pants. If that isn't suitable then you are actually expecting something beyond what is reasonable.