"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

[MrBungle]

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

I do appreciate it’s almost impossible to police.
Obviously I do get it

My point is if it’s illegal then women will feel that they can call someone out.
With more police/ security the person then can be arrested and we’ll leave it up to the police to carry out whatever checks are necessary.

I get it’s an almost impossible situation if the trans community don’t have a bit of respect
which given that link by spannasaurus they clearly don’t at the moment.

In what way are you unsafe in unisex facilities?

I have used Men Claiming Womenhood (MCW) because it works for those men who believe they are the other sex AND those who are doing it to access spaces/resources etc. And to me at least, not clearly unkind to either.

A portaloo on wheels maybe

That isn't proof. You may think someone is a male/female just by looking at them but that is just your opinion. Like the people who confront my friend. Their "nearly 100% accuracy" was wrong 100% of the time.

The social contract that males stayed out has worked through the ages. We can very easily reinstate it.

Bollocks we can. That cork is well and truly out of the bottle now. Men who believe themselves to be women are going to keep on using the female places because that is where they believe they belong.

I mean, if you know people on X then it must be true.
Not all people can be thrown in one band wagon so to speak. I do know of people within the community who do prefer DSD (generally the older community in my experience) and myself and others prefer intersex. You’re right it’s not cut and dry although, myself and others do not feel that the term intersex is misleading as to imply a third sex - it’s a spectrum of DSD which intersex covers.
I’ve told you than I am and you are welcome to not believe me and therefore discount my voice and opinions such is typical. No I am not disclosing my personal information, that’s a silly thing to ask me to do although I do suggest you research local meetings of intersex people to get to know first hand how complex it is and how different people prefer to identify.
Im still not sure why this is relevant to my inclusive additional spaces approach to the issue at hand.

Would you be OK with with Trans men using women spaces, I mean really masculine trans men, who look like men.

DuesToTheDirt,no I fucking do not!!!!

Haha problem solved. 😅

Yes. Because they are female. Quite a few have answered this on this thread.

Personally I would be okay with women however they identify using women's spaces

Your last para basically is the point of this thread though.
The discussion re womens rights to single sex spaces is ongoing

We believe we have a right to single sex spaces and we will keep fighting for that to make sure all men keep out

Men who believe themselves to be women are going to keep on using the female places because that is where they believe they belong.

Some will, yes. If they are big enough shits, who don't give a damn about women.

The third space raises a question: would men who identify as women want to share a space with women who identify as men? I don't think biological men ought to be allowed to use women's restrooms/changing facilities and I think in their obsession to be seen as women, trans men don't want trans women in their space. Four spaces? Women. Men. Trans women. Trans men. This is getting silly.

The “trans people” part of the quote just doesn’t make sense. The real question to ask is if they are biologically male or female? If female then yes they can use the women’s shower facilities. If male then no.

Trans people can be FTM as well as MTF

Yes and that is before you include furries who require litter trays! 😂

HollyKnight well said. I think it the Emperor's new clothes time again!

The third space raises a question: would men who identify as women want to share a space with women who identify as men?

Nope. Men who identify as women will continue to use the space for women because that is what they believe they are. They do not need a third space when there is already a space there for them - the women's. They will not use a space for transpeople because they do not identify as transpeople.

Plus accessible
5 spaces
Yes it’s silly but we now have two extras to accommodate so 🤷‍♀️

I mean, if you know people on X then it must be true.

Haha. I should discount people on X with real names and photos that check out and who speak knowledgeably about their conditions, but I should believe you and the meaningless fluff you're giving us here? Hell, I should discount actual medical fact?

No I am not disclosing my personal information, that’s a silly thing to ask me to do

Dig, dig, dig...

I did not ask you to tell us what DSD you claim to have. I said that if you told us which DSD you claim to have, we will know what sex that DSD occurs in, since they all occur in one or the other. It is highly offensive to tell someone who isn’t non binary that they are somehow incomplete or not real or not actually a man or a woman, and that's exactly what the term intersex does...and this is why it is roundly rejected by the community, which also rejects being dragged into the trans issue (what's it got to do with them?) This is so easily verifiable that anyone who spends even a little time on it will find it to be so. There was one blogger, sadly no longer active (I think she got sick of being exploited by TRAs) who said that people who kept dragging her into the trans issue and suggesting she wasn't really female should leave her condition alone and acquaint themselves with another, preferably rigor mortis.

In fact, people with DSDs are most prominent in professional women's sports, where a very disproportionately high number of men with DSDs compete as women. They rarely identify as trans (that's for the men without DSDs) and in fact are offended at the idea, as it would mean they aren't women. Which they aren't.

You and I both know that everything I've said is true and checks out...Well, maybe you didn't, but you do now.

What do non gender conforming disabled people do? After all a large proportion of disabled facilities are unisex.

Accessible facilities are usually unisex.
Hence all the wee on the floor because men use them too

Actually it is almost always very easy to tell a man pretending to be a woman and an actual woman with short hair apart.

I suggest that you look up the health and safety laws as they state that an employer must provide single sex changing and toilet facilities

There are a lot of really masculine-looking women in the world and I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of them use women's rooms.

Not sure of the point of your question when the entire thread is about men not only wanting to barge their way into women's rooms but also being completely blasé about the predators who will quite cheerfully say they're trans to waltz into the same spaces.

If trans women actually felt as fearful of abusive men as they say, and if they actually gave a shit about women, they might want to stop and ponder this quandry for a minute.