"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

[MrBungle]

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

I agree with this completely.

Completely agree. Maybe "transgender identified men" would work. Messing around with language confuses things, and imo, has almost certainly been done deliberately.

No it doesn't guarantee anything. Security isn't going to check anyone's genitals or carry out a DNA test. And you can't always tell. Countless "tomboys" get misgendered as men because they don't look like a stereotypical woman. It doesn't mean they are not women nor should they be prevented from using the female facilities. My best friend is one of these women. Short hair, no makeup, lives in jeans and plaid shirts. Since all this trans crap has started she has been confronted in the female bathrooms so many times. It's incredibly humiliating for her. She actually won't use the bathrooms now when we're out to avoid this. That is unfair.

No you don't. But go ahead and assume.

I want third spaces BECAUSE I DO NOT FEEL SAFE AROUND MEN OR WOMEN

You're entitled to feel safe in your spaces, let us have the same. You'll clearly never accept us. If you want us to stay away, FINE, but you don't get to bully us out of existence just because you don't like us.

Would you agree to a mixed space for everybody?

It's the only sensible solution in my opinion. The trans box is one that can't be closed.

Wouldn't it be better to deal with your fears?

@nonbinaryfinery stop being so needlessly dramatic. Nobody is trying to bully you out of existence, nor does anybody hate you as you previously claimed. Most of us simply don't believe you. If you don't feel safe around either men or women, despite the fact that you are clearly one or other yourself, then I suggest you get some help for your mental health. Your immediate leap to victim hood is troubling. Just because we don't believe your "non binary" claims doesn't mean anyone simply wishes you didn't exist.

I want third spaces BECAUSE I DO NOT FEEL SAFE AROUND MEN OR WOMEN

Who do you think will be in the unisex space?

You mean before tranwomen increased in numbers? Well, yes. But saying "no males in women's facilities" now won't stop transwomen from entering the female facilities because 1. they consider themselves to be women, and 2. you can't prove they aren't women at the door.

This precisely.
To that poster - If you don’t feel safe around men or women. You’re saying you don’t feel safe around ANY people. So are you asking for a space that’s literally just for you personally?

Does anyone have any statistics on the number of trans-identified born female people who have obtained access to male spaces and violently/sexually assaulted men in those spaces?

@HollyKnight if your friend is getting challenged it is precisely because men are now forcing their way into women's facilities, so women are getting suspicious. You say yourself that this is happening "Since all this trans crap has started". If we go back to women's facilities being only for women, and men go back to staying out of them, then her problem will presumably stop.

Have deleted as I thought you were the poster posting that and wanted to highlight it more!
Apologies for confusion if you read it before my delete

I see both sides of the argument, and personally - this is my take on it. If you are transgender but you have had surgery to change your body parts then yes, you should be allowed to be in the showers as your corresponding gender. If you are trans and have not going through the surgery as of yet, then you should be using the showers of your birth gender until your surgery is done and complete. This way, transgender people are not discriminated against but women and men can feel safe in their corresponding showers and bathrooms.

I used to. I don't wish anyone any ill will. I just wanna use a public bathroom without someone demanding to know what's in my pants, especially if they're using a camera to post it on social media as if they've just cornered a predator. I just want to be able to relieve myself in a safe place but that doesn't exist right now except in my own home.

@nonbinaryfinery

"I want third spaces BECAUSE I DO NOT FEEL SAFE AROUND MEN OR WOMEN"

So are you saying trans people are neither men nor women? Or who do you envisage occupying these third spaces?

The way people talk about trans people here is disgusting
Please compare how posters on this thread have talked about trans people and the way trans people talk about women. Which disgusts you most?

It's OK, it was obvious who you were speaking to!

I'm saying men and women make it unsafe for me to use a public bathroom, so I don't and the only way I can see forward is for third spaces that I know we are never going to get.

By gender I’m assuming you mean sex?

And as currently seen in the Supreme Court -

No one is able to define what ‘living in your acquired gender for at least two years’ actually means.
Also means that person, let’s say Man in this example, has potentially been going into spaces not meant for them (pushing boundaries) for two years prior to obtaining a GRC.
You're not allowed to ask someone if they have a GRC or not .
Plan to life permanently in your new gender. Worked well for Freddy McConnell who went on to birth two children thus making the GRC null and void, shouldn’t it?

The whole thing is a joke dreamt up by people who didn’t think of the implications or problems that may arise.

No one can define gender and what it means. Never happens on here anyway when asked.

Legal fiction is still fiction.

@spannasaurus nevermind how they talk about us... it's what they're doing that's even more troubling.

transcrimeuk.com/

Can't even agree with third spaces without being ridiculed, I tried.

I'm out.

Please do your research and actually chat to the intersex community before speaking for us. DSD is commonly used to refer to diagnosic criteria the term preferred is in fact intersex. Depending on your sources and criteria the percentage sits at about 1.5 to as low as 0.001.
I really don’t know what to tell you, the odds aren’t actually that bad and I am here after all? This erasure is something I’m of course familiar with but I was hoping for more from people who are so staunchly for identifying with their assigned sex.
Just because I believe in equal opportunity and spaces for all doesn’t really have anything to do with my sex.