"Trans people should not be allowed to use women’s showers and changing rooms, proposed NHS guidance says" - Darlington Nurses draft new guidance.

[MrBungle]

Is this a reasonable response to the Darlington Nurses issue? (males in female changing spaces)

Wes Streeting requested the Darlington Nurses drafter the guidance.

https://archive.ph/BNTtH (Link to Telegraph article discussing details)

I'm aware that trans people can be FTM or MTF. That's the point I'm making. Will FTM be happy to share space with MTF?

So many people who need to see genitals to know if someone is male or female. I hope they're all bisexual. Can you imagine what dating as a straight or gay person must be like when you routinely can't tell men from women?

Of course men should not be allowed in women’s spaces. How has society become so fucked up that this is even a question?

I just really don't think that males who identify as trans women understand that they think they pass because most women don't want to be punched in the face or verbally abused for calling their presence out.

We know men are physically stronger than women.

When decent males stay out those with nefarious purposes stay out.

Decent trans women respect the need for women to have single sex spaces. They have choices.

MEN should not be allowed to use women's changing rooms/toilets/showers. The person that the Darlington nurses are complaining about is a MAN. He says he identifies as a woman, but he is unequivocally a MAN. Transwomen are MEN. I don't think the Darlington nurses have mentioned transmen. Or even transpeople.

And in what way is me not telling you my diagnosis somehow disproving of my sex? As I’ve said you don’t have to believe me, I’m here and offering my perspective which is relatively unique to MN as you’re pointed out yourself. If you choose to not listen then that’s ok and on you.
You’re fishing for personal information to try and invalidate my opinion on a third space which would be great for everyone. That way me and transgender folk don’t have to feel like we’re making you uncomfortable with our presence.
I’ve tried to explain things to you as clearly and simply as possible but you are clearly not in a listening mood. To reiterate, please look for your local community and learn from them directly, who knows - I might see you there! Best of luck on your learning adventures. (Also the other intersex individuals I know avoid X like the plague due to the Trump administration and Musks association. X is famously right wing and is not an objective source)

I'm sure men would happily swap the male changing rooms for the female changing rooms, but then women would likely complain about not having shower curtains or changing cubicles.

Well, it should be transwomen. Transmen are welcome to share women’s single-sex spaces. Because they are women.

We ladies are not really being listened to and that's a big problem.

Part of the problem maybe is that men don't want to share their spaces with trans and because they shout louder, ladies have the issue put on them.

I agree that a third space would help resolve this but many smaller buildings just don't have the space to make that work.

Exactly. We’re “being kind” exactly as we are commanded to be by the TRAs. But we know.

And you’re so right about the way that transwomen insisting on using women’s single sex spaces breaks down the social contract about men staying out of women’s spaces.

If we’re required to accept that a man can “identify “ as a woman, and do nothing to mitigate his maleness, then it becomes difficult to challenge any man who barges into women’s single-sex spaces. The social contract breaks down.

DSD is the term. Nobody is “intersex”. Everyone with a DSD is still either male or female. Like every person on earth.

I’ve already tried that. They said that it’s separate facilities, or separate use of. They believe the lockable “pod” constitutes separate use.

I’ve raised issues with storing sanitary products in a locker in a mixed-sex area. I’ve highlighted the number of women, statistically, who have been victims of sexual assaults or violent behaviour from men and may therefore find the new locker room difficult. I’ve raised cultural issues, the fact that people (men) WILL still change at their lockers and that two pods is a completely insufficient number for the amount of staff. They aren’t interested.

Reading between the lines, they are pre-empting an as yet nonexistent person actually transitioning and the subsequent need to provide additional facilities or deal with issues such as in the OP. If we only have one locker room, they won’t need to provide anything else and no one will be able to complain.

Which is why any smaller new builds now have to provide unisex enclosed spaces with lockable doors.
and hopefully lots of cleaners

For Christmas I’d like all the silly transphobes to be quiet for just one day 🔔

Point at the transphobes.

humans can’t change sex.

gender is in your head.

Guess they’ll end up in court asap then

I’d like Father Christmas to climb down my chimney 🎁

Am I the only person who finds the use of "transperson" frustrating? Why not say "transwomen"?

Because I've never once seen transmen pushing for access to male sex spaces.

Nor have I ever seen anyone say they have a problem with a biological female using a female space.

Some people don’t like the word ‘women’ being used.
Sometimes people are referring to all transpeople

These men don’t WANT third spaces and refuse to use them. They explicitly want to violate women’s spaces

They don't push for it because they don't need to. There doesn't seem to be any objections to them accessing male facilities. In fact, they are entirely removed from the trans debate. And it always grates on me because I don't think women who advocate for female spaces being used on the basis of the DNA actually honestly would accept someone who looks male accessing their spaces. So I can only conclude that anti-trans agenda is really largely anti-men agenda. So why not call it what it is...

Trans men don't push for access to men's spaces because as women, they innately know they'd be at risk in those spaces.

Humbug!

Damn these transphobes!