My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

Agree OP
People have become more selfish.
Its all out them with little thought for others
We are becoming a nation of entitled individuals

Sorry but I don't know any family that would knowingly 'allow' a relative to live on the street... yet like them to be contactable to make sure they're safe. They either give a shit or they don't!

If someone has a family member with drug additions they probably can't house them in a family home or cope with their addiction, the theft and chaos that comes with it.
They don't stop loving them though.

I used to live in Wigan borough, though not near the town centre. If you think the town centre is bad you should see the impact of the lack of funding in the outlying towns and villages. The further out from the town centre you go, the less Wigan council cares.

The issue is copying the United States. We are a very different country with a different history. The history should be addressing the pupils in the school. But history long ago became political with politicians i.e. Gove deciding what should be taught.

Our local town is weird. A year or two ago the city centre plummeted. Every high street shop was boarded up. There were mattresses in every shop doorway and more homeless people than I have ever seen in one place. I don't live there, just go there occasionally to shop. Was there a few weeks ago and all the boarded up shops were now glossy new shops and we were back down to the two or three old-timer beggars who have been there forever. Sparkly new sculptures everywhere. The leisure centre is still closed down but the rest of the town looks wealthy again.

@Missamyp Of course these places reject gentrification. Gentrification means middle class people moving in and pushing up rents so poorer people get pushed out. Why would those poorer people welcome a process that will mean they will end up having to move elsewhere?

I agree many trades if learnt properly require a high level of intelligence. My ex DH got offered by a local collage an “apprentice furniture maker” because he was to quote “well below average intelligence” therefore only suitable to learn to make furniture. He could barely read and write my ex pointed out that not only would he require genuine artisitc talent, and an eye for detail he’d also have to read and understand a highly technical 3D drawing the man from the local college looked stunned when my SH showed it to him.

That is dreadful

Mine too. There are still pockets of a beautiful town, teeming with history, gorgeous old buildings, pretty squares, stunning beaches, green spaces, a busy harbour.

Dogshit and drunks everywhere. Boarded up shops, graffiti. The high st is Poundland and vape shops, nothing else. Anything that opens up and looks promising closes again within a year (eg: a actual bookshop, a cafe with a training kitchen for the local youth). It's heartbreaking. We'll be moving soon as I no longer want to run the gauntlet of drug dealers and snarling staffies on my way to Boots (although I don't expect that will be there much longer either).

Nothing has been done and nothing will be done, to the best of my knowledge they are having problems with the project, and no one who lives there can understand how another shit cinema, a few more overpriced cafe's and a ton of flats in a high crime, high poverty area will do anything to regenerate the town.

No one comes in, and no one goes out. even the once diverse train stations are full of drunks and shady people hovering around. Barely anyone even mans the ticket office now.
The bus station is constantly heaving with the same, too.

I agree with a PP about disenfranchised white men. I too feel sorry to see this, and yet it isn't pleasant to be around them, either.

Can anyone tell me how immigration affects this particular issue? It isn't a subject that I am very well up on to be honest. I grew up in a world where the idea of diversity and multicultural mixing was perceived to be a positive, so it is difficult for me to parse the current attitudes in the UK.

I find it unsurprising that shitty places don’t vote Tory and fancy places don’t vote Labour. I’m also not sure which councils - of any political persuasion - have much power to effect change in their areas. I think that each work with what they got when they blew in for the main part. Bigger forces will take them up or down from the baseline they inherited.

I've been visiting Liverpool at least 6 times a year for the past 30 years......whilst I agree the city centre is a lot nicer homelessness and antisocial behaviour especially from aggressive buggers is far far worse than it was even 5 years ago. I actually felt unsafe the last time I went.

Reform are basically appealing to people who think that they themselves are entitled to a great deal from the State but that this can be afforded by cutting off support from all those who don't deserve it, unlike themselves and their families.

So a Reform supporter might have a child who has SEN but rather than supporting policies that would provide better SEN services they think that money should be saved on the (supposed) millions of children claiming to be SEN but aren't, which would mean more for their child who does deserve it.

This type of thinking goes everywhere - my favourite was a guy on Twitter complaining about undeserving people getting social housing which meant his daughter (who was apparently a single mum with four kids) couldn't get the house that she needed Said single mother, naturally, not being one of the feckless majority having kids they couldn't afford!

Beggers. Not buggers......although some can be buggers no doubt 🤣🤣🤣

You mean people who are on the bones of their arses tend not to want to vote for a party that's only interested in making the rich richer? Well, who'da thunk it.

Also, regarding the proliferation of HMO's, some in the town centre in Wigan are tiny 2 bed terraced houses. They often now house 5 occupants, usually not en-suite.

A friend of ours moved out a few years ago due to several popping up. The tenants weren't the issue, although parking and refuse problems were, to the point where there were repeated issues during summer with maggots and rats. The smaller streets don't have the space for either the bins or the vehicles if there are 5 cars per house.

Something is really, really wrong.

@CatbellsOnTheSeashore it isnt about immigration. Some people just like to find an easy reason and solution rather than looking at the real issues.

Gentrification is not just about housing; it involves adopting a more modern lifestyle. I know that even in DP's town and village, people cling to habits and customs that are outdated and insular.
Hence why they reject ideas and carry on wittering about the mines or how much a pint of grandads Tetleys has gone up.
I'm not 'paying that' to be heard on the local Facebook group when discussing the prices at a local venue bringing in global pop artists. Some people just want a duck race, egg and chips and a pint of carling for 10p.

@Missamyp what do you think they should want?

It sounds like our Government and local councils need to start to feel that they will be held accountable if they don't pull their finger out and do something about these problems!

I wonder if any of the areas involved have any local support groups,local churches and charities that would get involved,the more people involved who want to return the area's to how they used to be the better or sadly the towns and parks will just get worse and worse.

I know it sounds easier said than done but that's what happened a lot where I live,the local community centres and churches all got involved and things are getting better at long last.

Unfortunately many will shut down discussion if you dare to mention the working class, which I presume you are from your post (I recognise the northern stereotype). Often the elephant in the room, as a diverse and wildly varied economic group, the current WC are often still perceived to be the underdog, and in many ways of course they still are.
But this shouldn't stem discussion about issues within and about this demographic either. I wish we could look at those issues in a more measured and respectful way on mumsnet, instead of it eliciting knee jerk reactions.

Oh is that what those little white things are on the bins. Thank you!!

You think people should not want cheap beer, and should not complain about the high price of tickets for gigs?

I'd agree with this but would also add mental health and/or trauma (with or without addiction also present as a cause or symptom).

In the case of addiction, I saw this attitude from a younger, naive family member who really felt that the rest of us weren't' providing enough support to the addict in question. She had NO idea.

Can anyone tell me how immigration affects this particular issue? It isn't a subject that I am very well up on to be honest. I grew up in a world where the idea of diversity and multicultural mixing was perceived to be a positive, so it is difficult for me to parse the current attitudes in the UK.

I think it probably depends on the area and whether the government has allocated asylum seekers to the town. The area where my daughter went to school was supposed to have an ex Uni accommodation block converted to asylum seeker accommodation. There was a huge local outcry and I think all GE candidates campaigned to stop it but I'm not sure if it went ahead. I don't go there often, mostly because of the horrendous traffic.

In my Lancaster example it was (like you) white young/middle aged men causing the trouble.