My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

@CatbellsOnTheSeashore can I ask what part of the UK you're in? I could have written this about our town centre. I moved to the specific area I live in during Covid and for a couple of years it was fine and for the last two, it's taken a massive dive. Whilst my local area is (mostly) fine, I don't walk into town anymore, I drive there so I'm going from A to B because of groups of men everywhere.

It's like that in my home town. It was always a deprived area. Very deprived. But when the rent cap come in, lots of Londoners moved in as its close to London and relatively very cheap. Because of that, the town, which is victorian terraces everywhere ( its a very old town) started being bought by property developers. So owners turned to renters. Then the HMOs came along. Every house in my my old road when they come onto the market turns into a hmo. One three bed family house turns into five bedsit type flats. Families live in those flats. One three bed house in theory could have 24 people living in it. So on road the population could gone up five fold. Who wants to live in a 150 year old horse hair build victorian bedsit with no parking? People with zero choices.

In turn there's a massive influx of ever churning people with little prospects. One thing for sure it can never ever get better. Those houses will never be family homes again. Also, who wants to buy a family home in-between two hmos? On street designed in a time when the car didn't even exist? It's turning back into something like the Victorian slums with hundreds living in house for a family of four.

Most education in the US happens at the state level. Getting rid of the Federal department of education is a very different proposition to what people think it means.

It does mean less standardisation between states, if it happens.

@Sweetpeasaremadeforbees They are not allowed to work. Many asylum seekers are desperate to work.

Just been a huge uproar in Altrincham (not known for cheap housing), at very short notice hotel cancelled all bookings (incl weddings) and hundreds of "people" bussed in in the middle of the night to occupy it. Spoke to someone who had been into the town in the evening and found it very intimidating having these "people" just mooching around.

I've been drawn into a discussion on immigration but actually I think that it is just one of many many issues contributing to the decline of many towns.

They are not allowed to work. Many asylum seekers are desperate to work.

I know, I just think that in my area, there aren't any jobs for them to do!

There are people like this on every thread now and that’s worse since the pandemic too!

Well that's a government decision. Humans are allowed to claim asylum and the vast majority who come here (around 80%) are deemed to be genuine asylum seekers. The men come over first to provide for their families or to see if they can create a home for their families. Why do people always assume they're unskilled? People have no idea what skills they have. There's a cleaner in my office at work, a man of about 40, who's recently had his asylum claim processed and is allowed to stay. In his country he works as a physiotherapist but because his qualifications aren't recognised here he's doing cleaning work until he saves enough to do a physiotherapy course here.
I also don't understand why "young men" is always said in such a derogatory way. Surely young men can be a real asset to society when we have so many jobs that need filling. In purely functional terms then we should want healthy young men coming here, surely they can offer more to the country than say, an 80 year old man, who is unable to work and will likely be a burden on the NHS.
Once they are allowed to stay, asylum seekers are less likely to be on benefits than people born and raised here.

Went to Munich last summer. Used to live there & it was amazing - clean, affluent, friendly. I couldn’t believe the number of beggars and rough sleepers. Also there was loads of litter and graffiti which didn’t used to be the case. There are jobs available there, but these people either have no way to find them, or no interest to do them. It’s not just here

I live abroad now, but went back to my old London neighbourhood (zone 3) last month and the difference to pre-covid was shocking. There literally was a stabbing outside my old home in broad daylight when i was there and no one even discussed it. There were stabbings before, but always night time and it was a big deal. Now everyone just seemed so 'whatever'ish.

There are in my area! The care homes struggle to recruit.

What i am saying is true I have watched videos entitled fuck about and find out and yes videos of maga voters now upset

Our town is getting like this, but recently I have seen tents in our village wood too and more and more litter. It’s heartbreaking. It’s like there is no respect for anything anymore.
The worst of the worst is seeing disposable vapes chucked onto the pavement.

It started in the 1980s really. I remember my town in the North in the 80s- graffiti everywhere, gangs of glue sniffing skins everywhere, lots of violence after dark, city centre pubs where you could buy heroin and guns. Then in the 90s there was regeneration, a stronger economy, SureStart, tax credits. Things improved.
What we are seeing now is the effect of the ideological shift to the extreme right that’s been taking place for 14 years.
No more helping children out of poverty. No more children’s centres. No more libraries. No more secure affordable housing.
No more tax credits- universal credit now so that there’s no hope of getting on the property ladder on a lower income because they take it away if you amass savings.
No more easy to get jobs. You want to work in a supermarket? Join the other 1000 who have applied online, do an hour long situational test, get rejected. Very few retail jobs now everything is self service ( better for the shareholders).
No more TAs, no more schools with the time or staff or resources to inspire children. Just academies run like open prisons with “ inclusion” pods for wearing the wrong socks.
No more useful shops accessible to people without cars. Want to buy a pot of paint ? Now Wilko is gone you have to go to an out of town shopping centre. You need a car for that. Add to that the effect of an app for everything and more and more barriers to in-person help.
So it’s purposeful hollowing out and asset stripping of the country coupled with people cut off from real life and separated from one another by technology. Probably immigration is not helping but it’s not the direct cause.
I hope things get better I really do.

Getting and holding down a job sleeping rough until you get your first pay check is hard. Some people manage it, but not many.

That's it. I'm going to Wigan.

I went to Croydon just to find out why people are so down on it, and it wasn't that bad apart from the obvious debacle of the shopping centre redevelopment.

I would love to know if the regular anti Wigan threads all come from the same source, or whether there is a Wigan troll at work?

The worst of the worst is seeing disposable vapes chucked onto the pavement.
Sorry that made me snigger a little bit as I remember avoiding needles in the playground in the mid 80s and I feel
like that was worse!

I think another major issue is that there are very few jobs these days that are very low skilled. Most minimum wage jobs actually require a lot of skills, and not everyone can do these jobs.

Now everyone just seemed so 'whatever'ish.

I think that's how I feel about a lot of this TBH. To think about it too much would be depressing.

Great answer

Oh wait, is this just an anti-immigrant thread?

I was confused by the mention of dog poo.

Things improved significantly in late nineties early 2000s. Then got worse again.

While I personally don't blame immigrants for most of these social issues, I do think @PiggyPigalle and others have a good point about white working class boys (and girls too, to an extent).

My DD attends an outer London primary which is demographically mixed and becoming increasingly multicultural, but still majority white, with a sizeable white working class minority. The curriculum has recently been decolonised, and many of the white male role models/historical figures covered in lessons have been stripped out in favour of female or minority alternatives. These are overwhelmingly African American (I think because the new curriculum has been lifted directly from an American scheme of work), even though the largest minority cultures in the school are Turkish, Kurdish and Albanian (who remain similarly unrepresented). There is an obsession with social justice, equity (as opposed to equality) and diversity, with plenty of great initiatives for EAL pupils, but nothing extra on offer for those from left behind white communities. Things like assemblies are also generally themed around social justice, and often focus on how minority communities have historically been oppressed by whites - eg World Book Day focused on showcasing books by minority authors; Remembrance Day focused on black soldiers fighting in WW2 and so on.

While this is all implicit rather than explicit, the cumulative message is that white men are the cause of most social ills, and I have no doubt that some of the white boys are internalising this and seeing themselves as a problem that needs to be 'solved'.

The issue with blue-collar technical trades is that benefits beyond salaries are often nonexistent at most companies. The working hours can be brutal, and there is a punitive system in place; any mistakes may result in deductions from pay.

For small businesses run by sole traders, customers are often cost-conscious, making it virtually impossible to charge enough to invest in tools, training, and apprenticeships. Most small businesses earn not much more than a salaried position.

While tradespeople may not pursue advanced academic education, many managers or business owners such as DP and his dad for instance are highly academic, with one having two first-class degrees and another holding a master’s degree.
If people dropped the stigma oh it's for dummies or non-academics it might persuade people to pursue trades once again.

Back to the original point, DP lives in a small village in Yorkshire, and he has noticed a number of people crossing the border from Lancashire to escape the deteriorating conditions and anti-social behaviour in their towns. Many of these towns seem to reject modernization and gentrification.