My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

Exactly this. If all immigration stopped tomorrow would people be happy? I don't think so. First of all most people wouldn't notice the difference. Secondly, a lot of immigrants are working hard and contributing to society so we'd suffer as a result. For example, immigrants are net contributors to the NHS (they pay in more than they take out) yet they're blamed for being a drain on the services such as the NHS. I know asylum seekers can't work while they're being processed but that's not their fault. It was a conservative government decision to house them in hotels for years on end. They literally have nothing to do but sit around.

I am very nervous to add my voice as I get very down if things turn into a pile-on. But I have often thought that whilst people who want to go into professions such as teaching, need to bend over backwards to meet all sorts of standards, those at the coal face, I.e. the parents, don't.

In the past, generations would live together or extended families just next door, so that the children would be raised to respect traditional values - the culture of what would your grandmother say! That is less the case now, and it seems we are beginning to see an erosion of common manners and culture in society. Even the Gregg Wallace thing is evidence of that.

In the same way that there were infomercials in the 1970s about the green cross code, it wouldn't cost much to put out a campaign on societal norms on the TV such as,
"don't drop litter," "mind your ps and qs", "know your limits when drinking."

In covid there was a lot of mention of "be kind", but the trouble is, that became a cliché and was really unclear and no examples were given.

I have seen a bit of this where I live. The issue is that single men coming out of prison, with drink issues, or just a bit anti social used to be housed mainly in a tower block and a separate complex with small flats. Then they were sold off to private developers and tenants evicted. They are now all private flats and the previous tenants are in HMOs without living rooms, just bedrooms. So they congregate outside to socialise. Added to that we have a lot more street homeless people.

Unlike some people we have no issue with asylum seekers or cafes. They tend to either gather in cafes, mosques or community centres.

The cause is poverty and a lack of services.

Since reform are trying to follow Donald Trump with the very fact that Elon Musk is now funding reform. Do you know that in America? They are getting rid of the education department, which means there are people that voted Donald Trump that have children in special education in mainstream school. That are now going to get their funding cut, they did not realise that is what they were voting for even though it was explained to them, but of course, people in a cult. Don't give a s* when you're explaining to these people.This is the problem with reform.
The recent reform manifesto policy would have given wealthier people five thousand pounds more compared to the poor.

I used to have to go to Wigan for work. Not been for about 18 months and I know they have a number of major regeneration projects in the town centre right now. However - aside from someone trying to sell me stolen perfume outside the shopping centre I was visiting for work - I didn't think it was as bad as I expected! Compared to a Dudley, Walsall or Chatham it's got a much nicer centre!
That said public behaviour is definitely on a downward spiral. It's like people just don't know how to behave. There are no repercussions for anything though so why would they?

My carers are Pakistani ladies that have recently moved here to care

Blaming immigrants for the ills of society isn't the answer it's not them that had caused this. Without immigrants things wouldn't be much better at all

I'm not blaming all immigrants for the ills of society, where did you read that? Are you not using your brain? I welcome immigrants who are fully supporting themselves, I think we all know that the NHS and care system would collapse without immigrants, I'm talking about the illegal unskilled (often young men) coming here illegally who are costing billions to support. But you knew that.

I think this is a global problem, not a Wigan problem or a northern England problem.

Around the world, public services are hollowed out, local authorities and governments are going broke, safety nets that used to be there are gone. Housing is incredibly expensive relative to incomes. Increasingly your home (or your children's home) will be rented from an investor. The richest businesses in the world are taking a chunk out of ordinary people's incomes (Uber/Taxi Drivers, Amazon/Small Shopkeepers). Jobs that used to put you in a secure and well paid bracket (Doctor, Lawyer, Teacher) have declined massively in terms of their pay growth and buying power.

In 'developing countries' they have the problems we have x100: corrupt politicians, our natural resources (water?) being privatised and decimated by corporations, low pay for the skilled professions, increased housing costs as properties are bought up by investors, people living on the streets, good healthcare and education being hard to access...we see this happening in Britain now, we had increasing living standards for decades but now we are in decline. Immigrants will continue to get blamed, but it's the richest in the world who are benefiting from this decline (Elon Musk rumoured to be considering giving Reform UK/Nigel Farage £100 million donation - why? I assume it's to benefit himself in some way and not the British public).

Well, do you know how you stop that? This country has a stupid, stupid policy that we do not allow immigrants to work while waiting to see whether we can process them. America does, why do we not? They don't want to sit there, not doing anything, because you know, the devil makes work for those with idle thumbs. They want to bloody well work they're just not allowed to

Fair point. Our local town has a Labour council and has had for a while and looks similar to what OP describes, albeit perhaps marginally less grim.

Mines deteriorated massively since Covid as well, and is unrecognisable from what it was when I moved here.
it becomes quicker and quicker as those who can sell up to more HMO’s or developers which then impacts the next locals.

You could be describing my town centre, seaside town on the south coast. High street is an absolute no go zone for me, I can't even remember the last time I visited it. It's really sad.

Globalisation. Neo liberalism capitalism. The wealthier corporations not paying fair tax. Wealth tax needs to be added in many countries to stop this

Tory gov stripped local councils of cash. At the same time social care bill is rising so even less money to spend on investing in town centres. Out of town shopping centres and giant supermarkets further killed off town centres. If people shop in giant Tesco’s etc they can’t be surprised when smaller indie butchers etc close.

so what do we do?

My point was as much reinforcing others, that sadly working class white boys now come second.
If you think they can bounce back from that rejection and educate themselves on their computer, if they have one at home, I think that's overly optimistic.

Imagine if one child in the family was always treated as second best. We'd think that was terrible, some would say abusive, yet it's happening in our schools.

I don't believe that white working class kids are second in schools. The vast majority of areas where white working class people are in areas where there isn't really that many immigrants.I went to a school in a particular area of that.
Sure.There is a lot of chip on the shoulders about immigrants but interestingly enough, these sort of schools don't tend to be in them areas.

Exactly, some people's only education will be via the TV!

Are there schemes to pay/encourage young white men to help improve their local area? Would they do it? Feels like should be jobs in it.

Do you know that community service is so badly sorted? Now? They don't even do that to people that should be doing it back in the day. They used to have chains of them with the high vis jackets on actually doing stuff, a community.They can't even do that now.Because they don't have the staff

Lack of SEN diagnosis and support in schools is a contributing factor. Children get written off very young as being stupid and become despondent / get into drugs / alcohol / crime.

It is estimated that 1/3 of prisoners have SEN.

White working class boys have been especially left behind and let down in our society.

Where I stay isn't quite as bad as that, but I'm becoming more and more aware of people - mainly men - with drug issues. Some are now middle aged.

I'm told that part of the reason is that there are numerous sea ports near us and that's where the drug distribution for Scotland starts.

My father was a tool maker he retired in the early 80’s he trained apprentices they were bright white working class boys from the local grammar who would undertake a very technical four year training rather than go to uni because their parents couldn’t afford it. At the end of the training they were in demand and could get good well paid jobs. He would tell me that less academic white working class boys would leave school and do proper apprenticeships in plumbing building construction etc. All would be proud to do an apprectiship and come out with a highly regarded trade that everyone needs. My ex husband left school in the mid 80’s he wanted to train to be a furniture maker his parents friends and their parents looked down their noses at the idea and suggested he did it as a “hobby” he didn’t listen and did train to be a furniture maker and has never been out of employment and now run a multi million pound business. But he can’t get apprentices for love nor money they see it as “manual work” or even worse “factory work”. I know apprenticeships exist but they are often poorly structured and not comprehensive or long enough so the trainee doesn’t finish with sufficient knowledge.

It was a conservative government decision to house them in hotels for years on end. They literally have nothing to do but sit around.

Where would you like them to live and what jobs would you like them to do? Round our way there are very few job vacancies for unskilled workers, even the supermarkets/McDonalds require certain skills and hoops to be jumped through. When local Costas etc advertise jobs they are inundated with applicants. And I'm guessing that a lot of the unskilled jobs require benefit top ups.

Honestly I think loads of people on MN live in cloud cuckoo land. Even in my little shitty part of the Midlands, housing is extortionate, minimum wage (let alone high wage) full time jobs are hard to come by, most are flexible for the employer but inflexible for the employee.

I'm guessing people just want the asylum seekers to melt into the unregulated service industry and work in nail bars/barbers/car washes/takeaways/delivery services/cannabis farms.

Labour councils don't get the funding they need because it's a tax and has a spending limit. We really need taxation like Sweden where you pay more bur get more.

Is it not more to do with the shift towards a individualistic society?

We have the same in our local town. It's disgusting and full of arseholes who can't conform in even the most basic ways. Spitting on floor, hanging round in their grotty tracksuits with a can of cheap larger and for some reason playing their crappy music out loud instead of through headphones. Fly tipping is a massive problem, everything just looks a mess. Most people I know would rather travel an hour to our closest big city.

I don't know what the solution is. I'm starting to think the Chinese government might have a point with the whole social credit system. Because at the moment there seems to be no benefits to behaving like a decent person and no repercussions for behaving like a dirty little animal.