My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

You're assuming these households have drive to want to improve, they don't. It's almost a sense of shame to rise up and out, how dare you see yourself as better etc. It's multi generational deeply entrenched space holding at the bottom of the ladder. Dad/older brother was the school troublemaker and ended up in prison, son/younger brother carries his name, goes to the same school in the same community, dad's reputation goes before him and so son lives up to it. Families writing kids off with a "it's just how he is". If you dare speak with anything but a local dialect you're othered and declared not one of them, an outsider.

So these kids have 2 choices, better themselves and ostracise their families or stay with the familiar.

Ok….

Massive movement of money from the poor to the rich. Loss of hope because jobs are cheap without dignity so cant move away, cant afford housing, staying with parents who may resent adults living at home. Councils massively underfunded so cant invest. Police and other services underfunded. Youth living longer so 20 is an extension of teenage years not beginning of adulthood. Online communities, including retail now instead of face to face and 20 year olds were 16 during covid so lost a lot of socialisation. It's the enshittification of everything and it will eventually collapse.

We need to run the world for most of the people instead of running it for money.

It's all political, the public just doesn't realise it.

I recently went back to my home town ( Mansfield) for first time in 25 years - live in Bath , so yes it's a bit of a contrast but bloody hell - the outskirts and residential areas to me looked a lot better, some niceish new developments etc, far more places to eat - albeit in non town areas but the town centre- oh my goodness, I could have cried- whole streets of empty shops, closed pubs, the lovely market square looking a bit desolate, the old and excellent indoor food hall- all pulled down - on the plus side the bus station and leisure centre were newish and looked much better. Centre of town though totally depressingly shit. I couldn't think why I would go there if I lived local apart from maybe M&S -

I think it's these kinds of places that have faired badly - no mining industry anymore which in fairness was pretty well paid, so a lack of well paid jobs and the ancillary business that fed into it, lots of people just moving there for a cheap house ( and it is cheap) but still don't really have money to spend, most people who can get a decent job/ earnings and don't need to live locally move out - even if only to Nottingham -

It's the mid sized places to me with big populations of lower earners , no Uni to give it a different vibe of young people spending or a tourist aspect that are really feeling the lack of investment or councils struggling hugely -

I live not far from Wigan and you're right, it is absolutely atrocious these days. I used to visit to go to the shopping centre, but not a chance I'm going near these days.

I’m in a town in the outskirts of Doncaster, ex-mining area and I can relate OP.

We seem to have lots of properties that home ex-offenders who are always causing trouble and re-offending.

Lots of antisocial behaviour- it was only last night someone had ripped off all the Christmas lights on our main road that volunteers had spent hours putting up.

We also have groups of men who sit outside shops or on empty market stalls getting high and drinking. Usually in the middle of the day. There’s zero police presence.

Independent small businesses are closing. Half our high street is boarded up. We just have a Poundland, Vietnamese walk-in nail bars and charity shops on our high street. Years ago the town was booming - we had a proper supermarket, fruit and veg shops, butchers, clothes shops etc. now it’s derelict and a hot spot for antisocial behaviour and a meeting point for drugs.

We hardly get any funding compared to the city centre. Because we are on the outskirts we get forgotten and dismissed.

It’s depressing. The class divide in our country is crazy.

Which is why they are knocking down a large proportion of the delapidated town center and starting again...

Perhaps she has not visited for a while, she should ask what the people in the surrounding towns (with the council boundary) what they think about most of the re generation money being spent on Wigan itself and not much for them

I think it's a bit more complicated than this. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think that the difference between white working class boys vs white working class girls is that the girls are being encourage to want more, do more etc. And girls of every class have always had to work harder to achieve the same, which means that there's intrinsically that dynamic at play from the start.

Don't get me wrong, I think that tere are plenty of ways in which white working class boys still have plenty of advantages and they should be taking advantage of those, but I do think that a lot of children do need to rely too heavily on their parents to achieve anything and those who don't have that, for whatever reason, are often penalised. And for lots of reasons, white working class boys dominate the group who don't have it.

When I went back home recently the nearest town felt empty - few shoppers and many more charity shops or converted into something else didn't feel unsafe just very deserted.

So my family say it's gone downhill - and it has but they assume it's the same downhill here which it hasn't been

Here it's been empty units - border up units and loud shouty aggressive people and tents in doorways - though less than at peak few years ago and till recently wasn't that keen to go in for anything really. - now it feels its trying to change for the better.

It sounds like my neck of the woods - Plaistow/Newham - a few different issues really. It's always been a bit of a dive but very mixed community and we all rubbed along well - however in the past 10 years it has become very segregated as a lot of fundamental Muslims have moved here - and most women wear Niqab (full face and body covering). This has created a lot of division, given rise to racist graffiti etc. Also most houses are council houses or HMOs, very few house owners, so we have a more transient population (lack of community cohesion). People spit on the street and drop litter everywhere. I saw someone take a shit the other week outside the station. In broad daylight. Lots of homeless everywhere. There are lots of barbers and they are pretty much all drug dealing shops, common knowledge. It's the highest for knife crime and robbery in London I believe. In Plaistow Park, lots of people are homeless there and you can't walk through there as a woman, especially after dark. Not that anyone would walk around here after dark really, if they could help it. It's pretty much a no go zone for teenage boys or women after around 8pm. Who was that MP who said no areas were no go zones? clearly never been to Plaistow...

@Seekingstyle and I'm afraid that's true too - the thing is these kind of towns have a percentage of aspirational driven people but in my opinion a bigger percentage of people who don't give a shit - whereas nicer places tend to have the percentages the other way around. Nowhere is exempt but it's when the population mix isn't very mixed you get bigger issues. That's why I think most city's have different but not the same situation- as often way more mixed

Councils cannot encourage out of town centre retail parks (with no car parking charges) and expect town centres to continue like nothing has changed which is what has happened in Wigan

I believe she still lives there she had her kids in wigan hospital it says 2015 so I assume she is still there

I recently went back to my home town ( Mansfield) for first time in 25 years - live in Bath

I lived in Wiltshire for many years before moving to Wigan, and I went back there last weekend. Wandering through Bradford on Avon is walking through another world compared to where I am now! 😀 A nice property in BoA would not be cheap, though, and was always beyond my means. All that said, I don't regret moving North. The OP's original complaints would be just as valid in Trowbridge or Melksham or Devizes.

With say teenagers too there are not the little
jobs they used to be able to do either. Earn money, life experience and keep them off the street.

Between the older staff just doing it and the insurances needed to hire young people plus school permission required. Then teenagers now stay in school longer mandatory which for those failing and I mean in life not just school children it doesn’t help.

The parents who are fined for their children being off are the parents who take a weeks holiday, James who barely goes in once a week his mum and dad are never fined… targeting and punishing the wrong people.

James stays home, sells some weed he gets off his dad, drinking cider and doing a roaring trade selling dodgy vapes to the children actually going to school. James loves his life no school, money, latest trainers and trackies. Dads happy James is running his little weed business but safe haha from the big country lines types. James is dad is a lads lads on the tinnies he never finished school either went straight to manual work. But now he has a bad back you see so sits at home scratching his arse with a joint and a can. That’s James role model and mum does Avon.

Sorry, just to add because all of this really frustrates me. In our town, there are plans afoot to build in certain "green" areas. the local established middle class communities are absolutely OUTRAGED. There was even someone on facebook who said, "we don't need more homes, our town is full." But the problem is that the existing housing isn't sufficient, nor is it fit for purpose. And so it gets mreo and more run down. INstead of building better, nicer homes and communities that ARE fit for purpose.

We have managed to build two such estates over the last 15 years locally. Both with mixed housing - from quite large freestandign homes with good sized gardens to small apartment blocks. They are fantastic, with a big mix of socio-economics across residents and well maintained, including pleasant community spaces and a lovely environment. But building more is becoming a huge battle. Any minute I expect the locals to start throwing pigs blood at town councillors or something they're so outraged about the 5% of the green areas that might disappear.

You see, unfortunately they are winning hearts and minds like you. That's how the fascist start. You need to use your brain and realise that if a country. has not put the infrastructuring to look after our own people as well as immigrants, this is what happens you need to be taking your fury out on the rich, but yet. You are being led straight to fascism

No I'm being lead to lethargy and insularity. I won't vote for them, but I won't vote for anyone. I look at all the social issues we have as a country and how much money they will all cost and I despair. People are struggling to feed themselves and cannot afford to pay more taxes for all these things. We have choices to make as a country and for me spending billions of pounds on people who came here illegally is low priority. Your priorities may be different.

@HolyPeaches yep- that's how I found Mansfield - it's not nice- I was very glad that for me it wasn't 'home ' anymore

My local town isn't as bad as what you describe, but it has certainly deteriorated since covid. I think what you are noticing is the general decline in wealth in this country. This is how it manifests unfortunately.

Very similar situation here (outer London suburb) - it's not quite as bad as what the OP describes, but definitely much grimmer than a few years ago - groups of young men hanging around, obvious drug-taking on the increase, more and more knife crime, graffiti and litter everywhere etc. We're looking to move out next year (after a good deal of location research to make sure we're not jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire!)

Sadly our society is increasingly polarised and unequal, and many places (like my suburb) that used to be 'mixed' have now tipped over into 'deprived' as people have moved away to leafier locations. I'm a school governor at DD's current primary and it's really evident in the demographics of the school - the cohorts at the top end are completely different from the lower end.

We are also becoming massively overpopulated, with no corresponding increase in infrastructure, so in many places people are becoming hardened and selfish as they fight for dwindling resources.

Then you've never had the pain of seeing a hopelessly addicted family member throw their life away despite the best efforts and interventions of multiple family members over years. Love does not conquer all I'm afraid. Street homelessness in this country is not primarily about housing,it is complex and usually rooted in addiction.

Blaming immigrants for the ills of society isn't the answer it's not them that had caused this. Without immigrants things wouldn't be much better at all

What if your white working class lad was only one of five in his class?
What if the five were given work sheets and told to sit elsewhere, as the teacher had to bring the non English speaking kids up to speed?
That is the situation now in many schools.

When the government started on the austerity path back in 2010 they deliberately focused on all the things they thought people wouldn't notice in the short term - all the prevention, the "extras", the Arts. We now have a third of children living in poverty, decrepit housing stock, not enough police, no dentistry......

As to Reform they have a raft of fantasy land policies that involve making huge tax cuts which won't affect the NHS etc because they'll save money by cutting "waste". In a recent interview when Lee Anderson was asked for some specific examples of this "waste" his reply was literally "well, I don't know, do I?". Richard Tice when asked the same question said "oh, any businessman can just go in and save billions on the NHS".

There really isn't a way to have wonderful public services without paying more tax.

Then as a parent you explain uou want your child not to be bored if they are and to get more work . I believe the children of immigrants that can't speak English do better in education they get their own help stroke class.
Or novel idea get your child to do more learning at home to on he computer.
What we are talking about is education we assume that being working class means uneducated.
However in some cases it does the difference is there will be working class parents who don't give a dam about education in kids and those that do

@Spangledangle I agree with you 1000%