My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

@Ameliasvocalfry how do you know anyone is an illegal immigrant ? Given that in year July 2022 to june2023 under the Tory's - 'illegal ' immigrants accounted for 1 in 28 of immigrants?? The vast amount of migration was authorised and approved by the gvt of the time. There were 38,000 unlawful arrivals and net migration was 900k - I am not saying it's right or wrong but those are the facts- pre Brexit unlawful migration was low - presumably because the French made a damn sight more effort and I believe we were allowed to send back ( correct me if I'm wrong)

I live near Bournemouth and it's very similar to what you describe OP. Except we have the Pleasure Gardens which are also host to the homeless and rats.

Rishi Sunak boasted of doing this in the run up to the leadership election against Liz Truss. However, there’s just less money to go around now anyway.

Aberdeen city centre is akin to a zoo..not a copper in sight.
Street drinkers and open drug use
Idiots balaclavaed up on E bikes.

This doesn’t pass the sniff test tbh. Might be a third factor here

This has also been happening in Wales for decades. They called it social cleansing, or social dumping. Places that were once quite normal became rougher and more drug problems increased.

They move their most problematic or roughest tenants to quieter, cheaper villages & towns, and then it's then our problem for our already struggling public sector to deal with.

I feel very fortunate that my town has improved a lot since I moved here some year’s ago. A pretty rare thing it seems.

I'm concerned about that @@Coolasfeck . We have some of the most deprived towns in the U.K here, and the last thing we need is the drug use at a scale one finds over there.

I live in Bournemouth, and it's just awful now. I think the only thing the council spends money on is the gardens, although with all the knife crime in the town centre, I wouldn't call them Pleasure Gardens anymore!

I live in a bog standard London suburb, 25 mins tube from the centre. We are ok here. Weekly bin collections, trees regularly cut, never seen anyone urinate in public. The two areas nearest to us have long queues in Gail’s and artisan bakeries etc.

What depresses me is oxford St. I used to love going there when I was at university in the 90s. We would congregate at topshop and have great days out. Oxford Street has now become disgusting. I’m sick of those American sweet shops and there is obviously poverty alongside the shops, with more and more homeless people. The stalwart department stores like House of Fraser, DH Evans and BHS have all disappeared. It makes me sad.

I agree with all sorts of reasons given here for the state of the country and people’s attitudes. I kind of also blame the Internet. Despite the positives, social media has the power to make people angry and mean.

@Coolasfeck indeed- I suspect if some of the Reform voters looked a bit closer to home they would find plenty of pure bred Brits in their families more than happy to screw the state, cash in hand jobs and feral families - but yep blame immigrants, youngsters, single mums - never 'their' families - look at those riots- pure white troublemaking scum and their feral offspring

@Lifeomars I saw the same in Cardiff.

I used to go to Oxford Street a lot in the 70s and 80s as I worked near there, but the last time I went was ten years ago and I was shocked then by its decline so god knows what it must be like now. I don’t think I’ll ever go there again.

If we want our towns cleaned up, it could be done but the outcry from the liberals would stop it as there would be rules and they don't like rules.

Alcohol would only be sold at full fixed price in licensed shops across a counter.
Licensee will have the power to refuse a sale.

Those unemployed for more than six months, must sign on at a job centre
every two weeks.

Rough sleepers must accept a place at a purpose built hostel and be employed
by the local authority. Emptying public bins, working in parks etc.

Children causing harm, damage or repeated social nuisance, such as climbing on rooves, will be sent to approved school.

All the above have been in force before. I've watered some down.

What to do about drugs? Police would like them legalised.

Thefts from shops? Trained security can spray offenders and their haul with dye that lasts for two weeks. (That is those who take in a holdall and blatantly fill it. Not me who got to the Boots till and couldn't find my sweeteners to pay for. They were in my pocket!)
Receiving stolen goods will be treated as having stolen the goods.

Police: no more fast tracking those with a degree without ever policing anything. There will be a Degree in Policing and ex service people will take priority. Hi Viz jackets gone and uniforms updated. Height and fitness limits will return. Raise standards and more will apply to join. No one wants to join a dud outfit.

What I notice is that people haven't got the self-respect to clear up after themselves and they think it's clever to behave in an antisocial way. There's a real attitude problem. I used to be the sort of person who'd call someone out for dropping litter but these days I just dare not. Just today I was walking through a park and there were two guys, roaring drunk on cans in the middle of the afternoon, staggering along. At one point one of them was beside me and the other behind me. I don't think they were going to try anything but decent blokes wouldn't corner a lone woman like that.

I hate to disappoint you but local authorities do not have the money to employ random extra staff.

My home town in an affluent county down south where I still live has never had a reputation for being a bit rough with some nicer area and has been marked as an area of deprivation for decades. However, I never used to worry about walking around at night alone or anything like that. I used to be able to go to the local park with friends and to town on my own around 9/10, the age of my eldest now.

But it’s hugely declined in the last few years. The town is full of addicts, there’s always hoards of teens walking around except many of them are wearing balaclavas and I would hedge my bets to say carrying knives and there is no way on earth I’d let my 9yo do the 5 minute walk to town on his own now in a million years. Cars are broken into nightly, every single day there is a post on Facebook about cars being ransacked. I don’t like walking to town at night anymore and we are literally a 5 minute walk away. We have a real county lines issue here, like many deprived seaside towns, this is the cause of both the increase in addicts and in youth violence. It’s sad, it’s always been a bit rough round the edges here but it never felt unsafe until recent years.

I think that part of the problem is that many decision makers live in a bubble and are insulated from what is being described on this thread. 'Metropolitan' Britain is moving further and further away from the rest of the country. I live in a cheapish suburb of an affluent and expensive city, and you just don't see these problems here, even though there is poverty, deprivation and quite a large immigrant population. Our city is full of naice shops and cafes, both in the centre and especially in suburban high streets. When I go elsewhere in the country, I realise how much of a bubble we are living in, and how we are insulated from the direction of travel.

what did people expect was going to happen when we started telling people they couldn’t be proud of their country? It’s no surprise they lose pride and act in disrespectful ways. It’s no surprise when our schools remove discipline, those undisciplined kids grow up into undisciplined adult.

its no surprise when we constantly excuse poor behaviour, blaming this that and the other we end up with adults not taking responsibility for themselves.

It’s no surprise when we have ridiculous amounts of net immigration that we have so many who don’t buy into British values. Indeed when out schools spend so long telling kids about other cultures and ideologies they don’t know about their own. A common culture and ideology is vital to society. Multiculturalism/diversity is killing the cohesive nature of society.

I think the problem of tatty private rentals is two fold - many (not all I know before I get flamed) landlords want maximum profit for minimum input so aren't caring for their properties. This in turn means tenants don't bother either to make sure the rubbish in the garden is put in the bin, those old car tyres are taken to the tip etc. I went out delivering election leaflets and was shocked at the state of some of the houses that I went to - falling down fences, peeling paint, crumbling steps, a broken front door. Years ago when Birmingham Council owned the houses there were maintenance schedules so doors and window frames got regularly repainted etc. Now it's a free for all - you're lucky if you get a landlord who cares but it seems rather many don't.

@PiggyPigalle I was unemployed last year for a month and had to sign on at the job centre every 2 weeks. So this already happens. I suspect you are getting confused with people getting UC who are working and getting top ups.

Crawley?

I completely agree with everything you have said. The problem is we can't have a conversation about immigration without being called racist and that attitude doesn't help anyone.

I grew up in Wigan and have family there.
It was never an aspirational town. It was expected that if you were a boy, you went to work where your dad worked and girls got a job in a shop. It never seems to have moved on from this.
I remember telling my teacher that I'd like to do medicine and he laughed and said that if I worked really really hard I might be able to apply for nursing but that I'd never be able to get into a university.
I did in fact get the grades for medicine but didn't have the confidence to apply for it. I was the talk of the street when I went off to uni and not in a good way. I was "above myself" or I "hated my family for leaving". Such an insular view.
I was SA several times as a child on the various "away days" or kiddies Xmas parties arranged by the various working men's clubs and miners welfare clubs.
I wouldn't want to repeat what I saw at the weekly under 16s disco held at the bus depot (of all places) but those men should not have been driving school buses for sure.
Every week someone's Mum would get "knocked about" by her husband and would turn up at the school gates with a bruised face.
My saving grace was the library. I was horrified recently to see it had closed.
It's a strange place Wigan. Geographically it's quite beautiful, no heavy industry to spoil the views and vast tracts of wild meadows and marshes through Platt Bridge, Ince and Abram. It was amazing for birds and there was talk that the RSPB was going to buy up a lot of the land and flashes. I think that proposal got blocked by the Dover gun club though.
However from a socio-economic point of view it still suffers from poverty; financial, cultural and of any sort of ambition.
The misery of the place inspired the Verve well.

Warrington is just 7 miles away. It isn't as ecologically wild, it is busy and scruffy but it has better healthcare and a much more positive vibe.

IMO part of the problem is that we’re not allowed to say what we think for fear of offending others. The reality is that we have a growing underclass with zero values. We have swathes of the population from other cultures with different values. The powers that be know this, hence why it is a statutory requirement for every school to teach ‘Fundamental British Values’ including for example respect and tolerance and rule of law. How on earth can we reverse any of this when we aren’t even allowed to talk about it? I’ll await posters to come along and lament my use of ‘underclass’ and accuse me of racism as a case in point.