My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

The OP's post just above this one quoted, writes about the proliferation of HMOs. Where are all these people coming from to occupy them then?
The indigenous birth rate is dropping year on year.

Men coming in by dinghy is a minor distraction to legal immigration figures. Students bringing entire families is over now hopefully but once a visa is granted, no checks follow them.

I listened to a caller on LBC who'd come in from Columbia seven years ago to work in the NHS. She then went on to talk about her chambermaid job in an hotel. When asked why she wasn't in the NHS, she said "Oh, that was just a way of getting in." She'd never reported for work and no one had checked!

I'm beginning to think you're on a bit of a wind up OP.
FOUR of our local hotels closed not long ago, cancelling all bookings with very little notice. Now our town centre is full of foreign men as I described in a previous post. We weren't told they were being housed here or given reassurances, informed of management strategies or a chance to object.
On the other hand, the Eastern European people who came here well before Brexit were mostly hard working, boosted our workforce and economy and integrated well.
The young men we have seen recently are from a very different culture.

Please don't take your frustration with immigration out on me. I am just a stranger on the internet who asked a simple question. Perhaps you are used to people baiting you. I am not one of them.

Personally I have not seen groups of immigrant men in gangs around Wigan. I did see one run out of a barber's shop last week and spit at a vehicle though.

There are many more immigrant sin general, here. I have noticed that in the past few years, but have not witnessed them causing trouble or intimidating anyone, nor have I seen them loitering in green spaces huffing skunk and tinnies.

I'm in Ireland as well. It's so disappointing to see the usual suspects re-elected.

I live in a village close to the county town, which hasn't gone, yet. I'm told there's less people in the pubs these days. We've got plenty of independent shops that have been here for many years. I did complain to the CoCo about the abundance of dog shite, to which they replied that it's the owners who are to blame and there's nothing they can do about it🙄 That situation has improved, to be fair. We've got some nice cafes and restaurants as well.

Drugs are everywhere, and there's at least one dealer in my village.

The village pub is thriving. Which is great to see.

But, I'm all too aware of the general decline. I was really shocked at the state of Dublin City when I visited this time last year.

Ah, I wondered if you were close to the town centre, as that's where I am, and I walk along the canals.
I think Upholland (my mum used to live there and moved away 5 years ago) is massively impacted by its proximity to Skem. Now that is a really poor, deprived place.

Hull is like this too.

@PiggyPigalle The post about HMOs I saw was about families moving out of London and living in 1 room bedsits. Those families are forced out by rising rents. House prices and high rents have wreaked havoc.
As I said earlier, in my City there was a complex and tower block where men coming out of prison, who drunk too much or were just anti social were housed. The properties were owned by the council, but they sold them to a private developer. Tenants were evicted and the flats were done up and sold on. Nearly all of those men are now in hmos without a living room or communal space. So they socialise outside in parks or similar. We had an issue with them hanging around graveyards drinking. Short term gain of money, for a longer term issue.

And yes, agree about those areas in particular. Adding platt bridge and Marsh green to that list - although that's where problem families live rather than single young men.

I was thinking about this earlier when I was in a local shopping area in Birmingham. Litter everywhere, quarter of the shops empty, another quarter are takeaways and barbers shops, drinks/drug addicts sitting around in shop doorways or on benches. The adjacent area was once one of the biggest council estates in the country where the council took care of repairs, now the majority of the houses are privately rented out with frontages looking tatty and run down, fly tipping all over the place.

Our Council is bankrupt and making cuts left right and center - rubbish collection & Street cleaning will be affected so we can expect more rubbish & vermin. It's partly due to Central Gov cutting the amount given to councils but also in Bham's case, mismanagement by the Council. The quality of many of our local government officials is woeful.

People seem less responsible these days, more selfish. But maybe that's a result of how we feel we've been abandoned by the Gov - national & local.

Dog shit is bad here too. My two year old wants to scoot on the school run and he gets it on his trainers.

@CandyMaker

’googled extensively’ in less than half an hour in two foreign languages whilst simultaneously posting continuously in this thread.

Blimey, I’m impressed. You should be Chancellor of the Exchequer, our problems would be over. 🧚🏻‍♂️

We are closer to Appley Bridge than Skelm but I know what you mean. The vehicles speed through here and wake us up. God knows where they've come from. In fact vehicle noise is so bad here it's causing us a good bit of stress as it drowns out our own conversations.
A lot of previously decent places have gone to hell.

If anyone knows why the car noise thing is so tolerated country wide I would love to know!

Liverpool suffered massively under Thatcher (as did much of the north) so were probably more resilient to the last 14 years of Tory shit flung at them. There's the same social problems as everywhere else, but it was worse back then.

A lot of places suffering now were middle England suburbia who might have done okay under Thatcher but decades of neoliberalism have caught up with most of the country now.

But you've been told by numerous posters that illegal immigration is a part of the problem and you don't seem to be accepting that. Your experience is obviously different but i can assure you it is a real problem in some areas.

UC isn't.

@CandyMaker The men I see congregating in cafes are not from Eastern Europe.

I actually agree and never liked the term Eastern Europe for the fact it describes a group of countries and it's peoples who have very little to nothing in common in terms of language, religion, culture, appearance - it is a poor descriptor.
The coffee shop "networking" is a particular darling of Balkan (a special mention to Albanians) and Middle Eastern men.

It is the visible tip of an organised crime iceberg, as much as the proliferation of the false-front businesses.

It is an imported problem, which as a country we really could do without, for we are not exactly lacking in home-grown scum. I find it sickeningly arrogant to think that this struggling island (with the last notable boom in prosperity 150 years ago now) can take on the world's ills and somehow solve them, when it is unable to provide a decent standard of living, education and health care to it's own citizens. UK is not even self-sufficient in it's food production.
Uncontrolled immigration is not the root of all ills here but it is a heavy laden seed head that wasn't dead-headed at the right time. Too late now.

Over 20 million has been spent by our Lib Dem council to improve our town. Sadly all they have done is replace pavements and roadways with fancier paving and there is a fountain and large screen planned. We have fewer and fewer shops and like you say, a number of groups gathering in the town. Fortunately we live in a nearby village and very little of this affects us but a decade or so
Ago it was a thriving market town.

@MissMarplesNiece I think privately rented houses looking tatty just adds to the general feeling that no one gives a shit and unfortunately leads to an increase in litter and similar. People have to feel like others care about the community.

I am being myself, so am listening to all posts. I haven't denied anyone an opinion, and you do not know what my thoughts are on that matter, either. I have said I am open minded to anyone's point of view, if answered respectfully. And I respect your opinion, too.
It isn't polite to demand that I agree with you. Let's let this one go.

Let's not blame everyone in private rents, since so many decent, ordinary people have to live in them. I have done my time renting and always looked after my home.
Something has changed, the rentals in Wigan were a lot nicer previously. People (including homeowners and renting) had more pride in general.

@CatbellsOnTheSeashore the poster was talking about landlords not looking after properties properly, not those renting.

@CatbellsOnTheSeashore you seem to have got the brunt of the people who blame immigration for all their problems (or blame people on benefits) and are unable to think critically beyond this.

My hometown is one of these places where people assure me immigration is a real problem, immigration and diversity is probably my hometowns one positive and has filled jobs the locals are unwilling or unable to do. The local care homes would close without immigration.

Everywhere is going to be like that eventually - "progress" eh!

The Conservatives deliberately unfunded Labour areas in favour of Tory areas, whilst in power. I’m not sure it was widely reported in msm.