My town has really changed

[CatbellsOnTheSeashore]

In a confusing and not very pleasant way.

It was gradually changing for the worse before covid, but the pandemic seemed to accelerate it, and I am wondering if anyone else has noticed anything like this.

It became more insular whilst more populated, the population increased quite a bit over the past 5 yrs. More and more dereliction, low council maintenance and an influx of troubled people housed around the town centre, which is now a no-go zone. Areas surrounding have steadily grown worse also, as it seems to be spilling out.

What does feel really different is that there are now lots of groups of men, hanging around drinking or sat on pavements together (not begging). Drugs took over the local nature paths and canal walks so now there are large groups of people out of their heads lying on old sofas at the locks, it's really grim. Women who used to cycle and run in these areas have more or less moved elsewhere or stopped.

More and more standard sized houses in low to middle income areas are becoming HMO's, yet with poor refuse organisation and not enough parking. I'm not exaggerating when I say there are literally trails of dog shit in the streets in many areas, too, which pretty much hangs in the air and the place stinks. That, and skunk.

We live in a decent part of town but it is coming closer, and I only have that perk due to inheriting my parents bungalow. More and more people are moving out.

On a walk to Sainsbury's yesterday two guys were holding onto a sign pole hovering over a bin. As I passed by one of them vomited into the bin and then spat/gobbed an inch from my feet - he didn't notice me particularly, but it was quite sudden or I'd have given them a wide berth.
This isn't unusual now.

I know people usually blame the cost of living and covid, etc, but this was definitely on the rise before. There is far more noise pollution as more buildings go up, usually industrial, and the roads are a nightmare. Infrastructure for actual people is decreasing.
That said, I don't think most of these people were thriving before, so it isn't a sudden change. It is as if a new kind of culture is growing, that doesn't care a damn about anything. Everything is vandalised or shat on. More and more windows are broken in properties close to the town centre, and I doubt most of these people were thriving before the pandemic hit.

Is this bad luck or is anything like it happening elsewhere?
We are definitely looking to move away.

What’s with these barber shops? My nearest town would barely meet the criteria to be called a town and I think they are six of them now. Is it money laundering? There’s also an enormous nail bar, has taken over what used to be a grocers, with a small display of polish in the window and a desk and chair right at the back. Are these businesses similar?

Yep, all money laundering.

Entitlement is a key word here.
Doesn’t matter what shape size or culture you are, the entitlement many people show is something that’s been growing for years.
Everyone wants something today. Everyone wants to be on the same level as everyone else. It’s always someone else’s problem; someone else’s fault.
Our government has continued to let British people down and it’s just getting worse. 14 years of Tory shit show and now Labour are continuing to make absolutely sure the shit show continues.

We're in managed decline but no politician will have the balls to say it.

In my town they took greenfield land and turned it into housing then they knocked down brownfield and turned it into a play park and an open green space while simultaneously ignoring the homeless problem we have recently developed which means these new green spaces will soon become tent city the (alleged) homeless blocked a car park up the other day while waiting for their girlfriend to finish peeing in a scant bush (the toilet across the road was too far apparently) they were there in a 73 plate car in the only entrance to a busy car park these are the same people seen shivering in tshirts in the snow

Just "piss poor planning" followed by "not our problem"

(And yes even the car park is poorly designed)

Well if it's money laundering it would seem the police and councils don't really care either.

The benefits system is too generous relative to work and traps people. There are low aspirations. Not enough investment in services and infrastructure. Poor quality housing. Inadequate healthcare. Justice system that's not fit for purpose. Basically we're declining into a developing country standard in many areas.

This is such an interesting thread and I can see parallels local to me in what the OP describes.

I think the question of 'why has it become like this' has lots of answers. Obviously the austerity policy over the last 15 years is part of it - whatever colour your local authority might be they are still funded by the austerity obsessed party in Downing Street. So we have less street cleaning, less services, less policing, all which mean that the environment and people's behaviour in it is less well looked after. Schools and education is stretched and underfunded so kids who might benefit from extra help and guidance don't get it and end up possibly on the streets or behaving anti-socially. Legal services are underfunded and in their knees, prisons are underfunded and full up. What do we do with the people committing crimes? Even if police do catch them then there's nowhere for them to go for rehabilitation.

Then Brexit split the country in two and meant that a lot of the skilled European workforce who made life nicer generally - in service industries etc left. This sounds small but it's part of the feeling that people don't care. Using hospitality as an example, workers from Europe where hospitality is appreciated and seen as skilled have left and we are now looked after by people who seem disinterested in comparison, and businesses have closed through lack of staff adding to the desolate feeling of some town centres.

Covid again has changed people - not just their health and mental health but also the realisation that we were absolutely taken the piss out of by the people who were supposed to be looking out for us. I honestly think that this will be something that is studied in history in the future as a catalyst for massive societal change leading to a breakdown of the social code as to what is and isn't acceptable. Boris Johnson has this to answer for.

I look around and people just have this 'let people do what they like' attitude which is damaging as it means that the standard is always the lowest common denominator. Maybe not a great example but there has been a Christmas market in our town over the weekend and the traffic wardens have been ticketing illegally parked cars. The cry on fb was that people should have been allowed to park where they liked and that the traffic wardens were in the wrong to ticket people at a Christmas event. But the point of people not parking on double yellow lines is for safety and for ambulances etc being able to get through, it's not just for fun to because they want to make money but people genuinely seem to feel that it's mean and a cash cow. Mind boggling. It's like people have lost their common sense to 'let them do what they like, it's no harm'.

I think someone said upthread that it's almost like there is no shame and people are not required to feel or be ashamed at their behaviour. That's actually not healthy as it means that they don't reflect on their actions and learn to make better decisions.

We need to wonder why the people in government might want this attitude in the population. Why would they want a population who have no care for anything or anyone or responsibility for their fellow people?

I might sound like a conspiracy theorist - and maybe I am one - but whilst society is not cohesive and we are separated from caring for one another anything can happen. America is well in the way to this too. But what the OP is describing shows that we are en route to being set against one another too, based on the concept of them and us and 'things aren't what they were'.

All the OP describes - the physical things but also the feeling of anger and things not feeling
Safe come down to this, IMO.

We constantly vote in govs who promise the earth with no tax rises - look at what happened to Theresa May's gov when she wanted to fund social care for the elderly, she lost seats due to the 'dementia tax' - our newspaper headlines don't help.

But international gangs are running things - and we are nice western countries who don't send in the SAS to bump them off secretly - we are busy playing by the rules whilst everyone else cheats - look at the human trafficking gangs - somehow they get away with shipping thousands of illegal immigrant across several european countries into boats across to the UK - and no one can stop it - what a travesty.

Benefits are not enough to live on properly, nor do they meet anywhere near what private rents ask. I have a friend on ESA who is a wheelchair user and if she had to rent, the housing component would not even cover half of a cheap flat here.

I would say the issue is work isn't paying, and the property market is ridiculous.

@CatbellsOnTheSeashore You are minimising the impact of poverty and loss of local services. And small things can start a downhill spiral.

For example, a local charity that supports street drinkers closes. At the same time the number of police and PCSOs are cut alongside street cleaning. Suddenly you have dirtier streets, more people drinking alcohol in public 0 can be as little as a group of 3 men in the city centre, and shoplifting and anti social behaviour increases as there are less police and PCSOs so the people who do this stuff know they can get away with it.

So less nice people come into the city centre as its not such a nice place to be. The drug dealers realise they can have someone dealing in the main square as the police are spread too thin. That brings people into the town square to buy and some hang about being anti social. Some more nice people stop coming into the town centre.

And so on. It does not have to be dramatic things that bring about this slide. Just a number of smaller things that keep building. There have always been people who will drop litter, not clear dog shit, piss and take drugs in public. That is why we need the police and enforcement. That is why streets are kept clean so it discourages people from dropping more litter.

I certainly didn't mean to minimise. Thanks for explaining, you make good points.

Excellent comment, thank you. It does make me feel on edge, and I generally have a pretty upbeat attitude to life. I wondered if it was my age, as I had only just begun to notice since covid just how bad it's become.
That sense of no one caring it palpable.

I know ‘the council’ is a general term and there is not an intention to point at individuals. I work for a council (not in trading standards or that sort of area though) and I care very much, as do my colleagues, we honestly feel our work is important and useful. We know there is no one in the private sector able to deliver what we do. But we are just so stretched, it started in the Osborne austerity budget, the ‘we will do more with less’ one and has compounded every year since.

I don’t think I’ve delivered a single project as designed since then. Everything gets gradually scaled back until the outputs can barely be seen, or just pulled when about half way through.

You could be fracking and actually manufacturing useful things? Even coal would be a better option right now tbh can’t move other people’s money around forever

@1questionfromme The loss of people who gave decent service in the service industry is an interesting point. I now usually get served by someone with an ear piece in talking to a colleague whilst serving me. They might parrot how are you, or have a good day, but they obviously do not give a shit.

I was served recently by an older women who asked how are you, was looking at me and seemed to be paying attention. I was pretty gobsmacked and we had a tiny chat. And I think that way of being might be important in terms of building a sense of community and a feeling that we all give a shit about our public spaces. It is small, but I think it probably matters more than we realise.

I think it feels that way at ground level though, as we don't know who or what to blame. I imagine many people within the 'council' do care very much, but can't do much with that.
I do believe that austerity by design ought to be considered a crime against humanity.

OP, do you live in HH? That's where I live, and whilst I do recognise some of what you say (the dog shit especially, oh god, the dog shit!!!!!) I don't see all of it. I work in the local community (health) too so I do see and know of some of the issues that you talk about. But I do feel safe where I live. I don't have any wish to move away. I am happy walking on the canals and flashes - and do so regularly.
But there is definitely an influx of HMO, young men living together in cramped conditions in poor housing which I do think accounts for many issues you talk of. Lack of ability to get secure housing in lower paying jobs leads to these groups of young men being housed together and the influence begins. It's like they can never leave high school in effect - living in peer pressure environments unable to escape.

I agree, benefits are poorly paid and very difficult to get. Hatred of those on benefits and blaming them for everything (second to immigrants) demonstrates such a lack of critical thought and education, and is prevalent in my hometown.

work doesn’t pay, benefits don’t pay and there’s a lack of community

That is how I feel. Like no one gives a shit. Even though I know people who do.

The whole decline is linked to poverty but not the fault of poverty directly, but increasing wealth inequality - there has been some really good research done around this which shows that in societies where there is a lot of poverty but not much wealth health outcomes are better, drug abuse, mental illness and crime is lower.

But in countries where you have high levels of poverty but also extreme levels of wealth, outcomes are worse and crime, drug addiction and mental health issues are higher.

This is because of social comparison which leads to a sense of frustration and injustice, weaker social bonds and social cohesion and psychological stress.

Compare it to Britain during and after the war - blitz spirit and all that - most people felt they were on an even keel with each other. There is no common societal thread now which just leads to all sorts of issues.

Since the 80's we've hurtled towards a society built on individualism, 'I'm alright Jack' mentality and the hoarding of wealth by a few to the detriment of many. Not only does this massively screw over public services, but also reduces empathy and people's willingness to look out for each other.

Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett have done extensive research in this area for anyone interested in the why's and wherefores (The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always Do Better).

Gary Stevenson is also worth a listen to on this - he has a YouTube channel and has seen things from both sides (grew up in poverty, ended up working in the stock market and making a fortune). His book is also really good (would recommend the audio book as he self-narrates)

My local large town is bucking the trend. The council have invested heavily in the town centre and it is now worth visiting again. The building plans were already in place when lockdown began and it was too late to backtrack. There is a new open space that has been used several times for events, the latest being an upcoming Christmas market at the weekend. We haven't had one for several years. It also has an excellent market.

We have several new bars and eating places worth going to, plus quite a few that were already there, and a new cinema (which IMO we didn't need as we already have one) and bowling alley.

People now travel in from other towns to visit.

Oh, and there is lots of parking, which is free at the weekend.

I don't work for the tourist board

Not sure what HH is?
I am out of the fray in UpHolland, grew up here and came back, although did live in Shropshire for many years.

The areas I have found are the worst are surrounding the town centre such as Scholes, Ince, Frog Lane, Wigan Lane, etc. I know there are many troubled 'estates' around the borough but am not currently familiar with them.

Benefits are not enough to live on properly, nor do they meet anywhere near what private rents ask.

Once you factor in a couple of statemented kids and a council house it's a different picture.

@ThisMustBeMyDream Traditionally young men who can be a little bit anti social, get pulled into line by having a job and moving in with a girlfriend. If you remove those, you are going to get an increase in issues.

Yes I don't think men do well without a purpose or a woman.