To judge friend's approach to Christmas?

[NoisyDenimShaker]

I'm desperately trying not to judge my friend, who keeps talking about how much she loves spending Christmas only with her husband and kids. I don't have kids, so perhaps I just don't understand. But I feel I've watched her turn into someone I'm finding more and more difficult to respect. Here's the situation: Her parents are dead now, but when they both had terminal cancer, a few years apart, she wouldn't invite them for Christmas. Even when her mum was terminal and widowed, she wouldn't invite her. The mum did have a companion, but she was desperate to spend Christmas with her daughter and four young grandchildren the last two Christmases of her life. She was terminally ill for both of those Christmases, although the cancer hadn't yet overwhelmed her and she could have travelled. Anyway, it didn't happen, because she wasn't invited.

My friend also has a sister whose husband had an affair, and the sister will be alone this year since the parents are gone and her husband is with OW, but she won't invite her sister. (When I say alone, she'll probably have invitations since the sister is cool, but she has no family left to spend it with.) Neither will she inviter her in-laws, who live nearby and are old and one is terminally ill.

She gets on fine with all those family members, whom I know are deeply hurt, as our families know each other and go way back. What she says to me is that she just wants to spend Christmas with her husband and kids.

So my question for all the parents here is this: When you have kids, is it understandable to just spend it with the husband and kids. even when various family members are dying and/or alone? That they grow up so fast, and in the blink of an eye, they'll have their own partners and Christmas will change forever? So you want to have Christmases alone with your spouse and kids while you can?

I'm just really trying to understand, because friend keeps talking with glee about how she's having the Christmas she wants, and I'm having difficulty not judging.

I don't have kids, so perhaps my friend is being totally reasonable and it's what all parents want - just to be alone with their spouse and kids at Christmas? Maybe my friend is not being unreasonable?

I don't know if I mistyped, but she has 3 children not 4, and they're not little anymore. They were little when one parent was terminal, and quite a bit older when the second parent was terminal, and now they're late teens and early twenties.

Although she is your friend you do not truly know the dynamics of the family relationships and what's gone on in the past. My closest friend thinks my parents are 'sweet' and 'cute' because they are old and they act like that when they see her. I get on fine with my parents but in private they are rude to my husband, quite anti-social, inconsiderate and when I was a child, frankly, not good parents and they pretend now my childhood was all roses when my mum was abusive and my dad an enabler. My sister and I were scared of our mum. So we like to protect our children from their worst excesses and do not invite them for Christmas. To others this may look mean and we never have the 'piles of people round for Christmas' but it works for us.
Same deal for DH's side as well really. In other words, perhaps don't judge what you truly don't understand.

But if it were your DM or DF's last Christmas would you let them spend it without you?

I’d be so tempted to point out that she’ll be the one spending Christmas alone when her kids have grown up because she’s taught them that it’s not for extended family.

Christmas is more than one day, perhaps she spent Christmas with her mother and sister on other days over the holiday.

How do you know they were deeply hurt/upset, do you know them personally, did they tell you? I'm sure in their place I would have told nobody how I felt., certainly wouldn't have gossiped about it to my daughter's/sister's friends.

It doesn't sound good from what you've said but it really is none of your business, don't get involved.

Even though your families are close, you won’t know the full background.

for those saying the friend will end up on her own when her dcs are adults, it could well be she has a better relationship with her children than her parents had with her.

DH is a much better dad to his dcs than FIL was to him.

if your families are close it might be hard to say “I don’t actually like my Mum/Sister.”

You don’t mention your friends PILs. What about his family?

We have every waif and stray at our house at Christmas. Do I enjoy it? Not really. Would I leave anyone on their own at Christmas? Absolutely not. The thought of my elderly family members being on their own on Christmas Day is heartbreaking and something I will put myself out to avoid.

Well, the mum is dead now, but to answer your question about why couldn't the sister not host, the sister did host, every year, because my friend wanted the day to be just her husband and 3 kids, but my friend had the only grandchildren, as her sister doesn't have kids. Just to explain.

Your friend sounds selfish. It's one thing not wanting to 'host' under normal circumstances but to not include your terminally ill widowed mum is cruel. Definitely not in the spirit of Christmas which should be about love and kindness. Maybe there is more to this story but on surface level that is very grim.

We were always brought up Christmas was for all, so my mam with help would do dinner then we all help with dishes and then from mid afternoon onwards anybody can come round from extended family, neighbours,friends and it's the norm everyone brings food and we have a buffet for tea..one year my mam wasn't well so a neighbour did the buffet at there's and another time building works was happening and another relative jumped in with there house..it's so much the norm nobody bothers asking what times etc because it just happens naturally and has done for 30 years..we have a lovely fun day and anybody is welcome.. funny enough now me and my siblings are adults with our own kids we follow with the other holidays open house for anyone wishing to come along or anniversarys etc because the most enjoyable thing is the love,chat and fun and luckily it always filters around bring a sweet and a savoury with you lol....it's such a shame that's missing for a lot these days.

What evidence do you have that OPs friend never does anything for anyone else though? It's not self-centred to sometimes put yourself first.

There are 365 days in a year and l would judge her on what’s she does for the other 364. She has a right to set her own boundaries and if Christmas is the one time she looks forward to, to enjoy with her own family, it’s not for anyone else to say whether that’s right or wrong. I hate people dropping in unannounced over Christmas and let it be known years ago that l won’t answer the door to people who call casually. I’m probably going to be flamed for that here, but there’s enough running round done without having to do it for uninvited guests.

There is still an expectation on women that they make sure everyone else has a good time, even if it means doing things they hate, such as hosting family at Christmas. I used to watch my mom killing herself over trying to create the perfect Christmas for the extended family. She was always stressed out, tired and in a foul mood (though cheerful when the family members started arriving). She hated it.

I promised myself that I would never put myself in such a position. If I like hosting, I will do it, but I not do it out of a sense of obligation.

Furthermore, why is there once again no focus on men not hosting? Nobody calls them selfish for not having family over on Christmas and catering to their every whim.

Threads like these are incredibly sexist.

No, I don't want to rock the boat. I'm just puzzled because even if there was childhood abuse, it wouldn't explain why she also never wants her in-laws and sister there.

We have a family party a couple of days earlier, and gift give, have food buffet, and then spend Christmas Day with our individual families. If my parent was sick and alone, they’d be spending the day with us

DH and I are both children of divorce, neither sets of parents get along. We spent a few years trying to please everyone and never had a christmas we enjoyed.

Now we have christmas day just us and DD and we LOVE it. We see our different family members boxing day, christmas eve, hogmanay etc.

I think if someone was going to be left alone and was terminally ill we would revisit things but we would then have the other parents bitching that they weren't "chosen". Most people probably wouldn't realise this as if anyone asks who we're having for Christmas we just answer "oh just the 3 of us" I don't really divulge the reasons.

I expect there's more to the story. It's possible that because you are all.family friends etc.. she doesn't feel able to tell you,.or out of respect to her parents she doesn't want to say the issues between them.

I.wouldn't judge her. She might be a horrible person or there may v well be a back story you don't know about. If she is just horrible I'd have thought this would have come out in other ways by now. If it hasn't, I'm more inclined to think there are just more issues than u r aware of, in the family

What makes you think she wouldn't be happy with that?

It's difficult to judge someone without knowing the full background of their family dynamics and relationships, but assuming she hasn't got very good reason to prefer a drama-free small family Christmas then it does seem odd and unkind, yes. Sometimes it's not always about excluding others though. For example you might have a partner who gets pissed and starts arguments or makes a bad atmosphere every Christmas without fail. You might prefer to contain that at home with as few people as possible, so others don't have to suffer it, whereas you don't have much choice.

It's not unusual for some people to insist that Christmas is just about 'their little family.' But 'family' often seems to mean 'that includes my mum and dad, sister etc, but not yours' to lots of women, especially.

My SIL who doesn't have children, always wants to spend Christmas Day with her parents, never her husband's (my BIL and my DH's parents, who are lovely and very easy to be around.) She'll see them (and us) on Boxing Day or some other day near to Christmas, but not CD itself. That's strictly for her family only. There is no real justification for it, she has siblings with children so her parents would not be alone. Of course BIL just goes along with this like an obedient puppy. The only time we were 'allowed' to see them on CD is when her own side of the family made different plans one year, so wanted to see them on Boxing Day instead. But even then we were just expected to fit in around her wishes to put her own family first, rather than any sense of fairness and turn taking for BIL's family's sake.

In your friend's case, this may come back to bite her in later years. If her children pick up on her habits, she might find herself alone and lonely at Christmas, especially if she ends up with a DIL who is exactly like her.

So the late parents weren’t alone they were with the sister?

I think it is probably pretty common for people on MN not to discuss they are on MN. 🤷🏻‍♀️

There is probably a good reason behind why she's arranged her Christmas this way that you are not aware of. Anyway if you are right and she's so horrible - why is she your friend?

Well, the mum is dead now, but to answer your question about why couldn't the sister not host, the sister did host, every year, because my friend wanted the day to be just her husband and 3 kids, but my friend had the only grandchildren, as her sister doesn't have kids. Just to explain

So no one, terminally ill or otherwise, was left alone for Christmas

You just want to have a public pop at your "friend" for making a choice you don't agree with

Couching your judgement as caring doesn't make it anything but unpleasant and judgemental

I'd get a life, if I were you....and perhaps some therapy?

She doesn't have to explain.

Hi @NoisyDenimShaker. Has your friend explained the underlying reason/s to you? There could be so many.

I spend Christmas with just my kids. But that’s because we have absolutely no space for anyone to stay and we don’t have a car, so can’t travel on Xmas Day itself, either to visit my mum or pick her up to bring her here. We see her on Boxing Day instead. When we had a larger home and the kids were younger, my mum spent every Xmas with us.

Depending on how far away the relatives live and the size of your friend’s home, is it possible accommodating terminally ill relatives for several nights might have resulted in a lack of sleep and stress for everyone? Depending on the ages of her kids, they can be v difficult to get to sleep, loud and excitable. Some kids wet the bed until quite old, so it’s difficult for them to share beds or even rooms, if bedding has to be changed in the middle of the night. But you can’t tell people if you’ve promised the child you won’t. Kids who are neurodivergent can really struggle with changes to sleeping arrangements, routine or too much stimulation.

Or maybe your friend’s having problems in her relationship. When I was going through a relationship breakdown, having guests was really hard as it meant we had to act like a happy family, when we were anything but, and bat away questions about our future plans. Or maybe your friend’s struggling with her health (mental or physical) and just doesn’t feel up to putting on Xmas for wider family. It’s quite likely she was suffering from anxiety and/or depression if her parents were terminally ill, and that can be debilitating. Some people get really bad SAD in midwinter. And perimenopause combined with young or teenage kids can be hell.

Also depends on how much time she and her DP have off work. Lots of people have very little leave and just want to relax on the day or two they get off and enjoy being with their kids, rather than spending almost the entire day/s in the kitchen and serving drinks. Especially if the DP does bugger all.

Finally, as others have said, some parents aren’t the same behind closed doors as they seem to family friends. They can be horrible. If they’re terminally ill, they can use this to expect people to put up with their abusive or toxic behaviour. I have friends who could just about tolerate their parents’ behaviour before they had kids but didn’t want their kids exposed to their grandparents’ nastiness and/or racism.

If you see yourself as her friend, rather than her parents’ or sister’s, try to be empathetic and understanding to her. There may be lots of things about her life you don’t know about and she doesn’t want to discuss. Some people have very dark secrets associated with Xmases past, like being sexually abused as a child. You just never know.

She told me once that her not wanting her in-laws around at Christmas had caused problems between her and her husband. He's usually a pretty easygoing guy, and for all I know, he's mostly happy to be the nuclear bubble. I really don't know. And it's on the mum, as you say, because it's the mum who keeps talking to me about it!