to think men shouldn't be midwives

[igglepiggle599]

Just saying, I have nothing against the male midwives themselves. I'm sure they're amazing at what they do and are lovely, kind, caring people. They themselves are not actually the issue I have.

I think many women are uncomfortable with the idea of a male midwife for any number of reasons, and there's a good chance that any given woman will automatically feel uncomfortable when a male midwife walks in. I also find it very disingenuous when people say that they can simply request another midwife. I'm sure that's often true (though maternity units presumable don't have an infinite supply of midwives at any given time, so there's at least a hypothetical scenario in which this wouldn't be possible?). I don't think it's fair that women should be put in a situation where they have to speak up and say that they want a different midwife, particularly when they are extremely vulnerable and possibly in excruciating pain. I'm not a particularly shy or passive person, but I would find that conversation very difficult even when not in labour. I might panic in the moment and wonder whether that amounted to some kind of breach of equality laws, or I might be in such a state that I just didn't want to risk any kind of conflict. Ultimately I would end up with a birth that may well be smooth from a medical point of view but somewhat tainted emotionally, as I would know that an aspect of the situation made me uncomfortable and I hadn't felt able to say anything.

Also, is midwifery even the kind of profession that would actually benefit from gender diversity given that women are the ones who give birth? I'm sure these very talented, compassionate men would be just as valued in a different branch of nursing. Obviously there are male doctors who can end up delivering a baby, but somehow it feels different for men to train in a role that is so intimate.

Very much open to different perspectives.

It is interesting right? As women we tend not to complain about positive discrimination in male dominated workplaces so is it a good thing or a bad thing? Is it something that redresses the balance when it works in our favour but an unfair advantage when it doesn’t? And if we decide it’s a bad thing for women in this instance, midwifery, which professions are we, as women, prepared to step away from to honour the preferences of men despite being as skilled as our male colleagues? It’s a dangerous precedent to set for the larger picture of women’s rights imo.

I work in a male dominated field and was without a doubt a diversity hire, that’s how I got my foot in the door. My trajectory thereafter has depended on having to be 10x better than my male colleagues for the same progression. Because patriarchy. I imagine that is also the case for male midwives in a female dominated field. We are quick to recognise misogyny in men, are we equally sensitive to our own misandry?

As women we absolutely are entitled to a preference - but, unless there are exceptional circumstances, that’s what it is - a preference, not a need. Your need as a labouring mother is medical care and support from a birth partner. hospitals will always meet your needs and may accommodate a preference subject to availability of staff and resources -in the same way they will honour a birth plan unless the resources are not available or the labour becomes complicated in unanticipated ways. Their priority is a healthy mother and baby not to deliver the birth of our dreams - and sometimes circumstances are uncooperative and meeting our needs can be uncomfortable.

Given the shortage of midwives I’m just glad they able to recruit candidates with the right skill set at all, honestly

I totally get it. I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable asking for a female MW though.

During labour I’m not sure they’re are many women who would give a flying fuck who was there as long as they knew the MW was qualified to delivery their baby safely.

People always say that which makes me wander if i am weird because I very much did care.

@Cyb3rg4l what is an ‘exceptional circumstance’ though?

Have you given birth?

Same here. In fact, the more I lost control of my body in pain, the worse it felt to be in a room full of strangers. If only I’d been low-risk I’d have loved a home birth.

i was thinking women who have suffered sexual trauma.

Are you at all able to comprehend that other people might experience things differently to you?

No. Because those jobs don't exist solely for women, do they? Those professionals deal with people of both sexes so it would be disproportionate to bar men from them. The focus there is ensuring there are sufficient women in those roles so that the practitioners are representative of the sexes they serve. If we were to bar men we would not meet the needs of men who may want to be searched by a male police officer, for example. Midwifery is different in that no one is going to be refused a same sex practitioner if we exclude men.

@Bubblemonkey "Once you’ve seen one vagina, you’ve seen them all"

Good. Such a relief that the male midwives aren't gong to be traumatised in any way!

I also did. Lots of women do.

I don’t believe in the approach of basically ‘a woman is just a container for the baby’ and a skilled set of hands to competently and safely remove said baby from container is all that matters. Women are people and matter too.

I had a male midwife with my 3rd and he was great. Lots of gynaecologists & obstetricians are male and extremely competent. Male nurses I've seen in hospital have been much better than many of the female ones. There is a shortage of midwives so men should definitely be encouraged to apply.

Stats show 1 in 4 women have been raped in the uk.. I wouldn’t really call that exceptional? That’s a lot of women on a maternity unit at any given moment sadly.

I had easy, untraumatic births. I have never been sexually assaulted. I have happy relationships with many men. I would not have wanted a male midwife.

Incidentally, my utterly fantastic midwife at my first birth was Dutch. I am not foolish enough to extrapolate from that that all Dutch midwives are fantastic.

I didn't care if my midwife was male or female, I also didn't care that the medical professional who replaced my coil last time was a man. I did appreciate him asking me if that was ok.

Why should men be banned from these roles just because some people are uncomfortable? I'm not. If you're uncomfortable then it's your job to voice that and request an alternative I'm afraid.

I would define a procedure involving medicine and medical professionals as a medical procedure. Most births are medical procedures.

There are not many women who give birth in the sitting room with Mum, the lady next door and a couple of hot towels to help deliver baby.

The medicalisation of giving birth is a good thing for all the women and babies who haven’t died because of it.

I have that figure to be 3.3% not all of whom will be of childbearing age and not all of whom will be pregnant at the same time so exceptional seemed an appropriate description. Although in fairness it depends how you dice your statistics and statistics are only as reliable as the way they are presented.

As a rape and sexual assault survivor myself I have every sympathy for women who have a strong preference under such circumstances, although I myself did not Stats here

Lies, damn lies and statistics. I asked a PP for their source earlier so I could look into their claims and they wouldn’t give it up 🤷‍♀️ I made enough of an inference from that alone.

Why should it be their job? Advocating for oneself during childbirth is difficult enough at the best of times. Some particularly vulnerable women may feel unable to speak up, it’s not a crime and they deserve your contempt. And what if there is no alternative? Is it just tough luck?

Your stance is that you don’t care if your midwife is male or female. Good for you. Many women do care and object to a male midwife. If all midwives were female you would both be satisfied wouldn’t you?

Why should that fact that you don’t care about something mean that other women that do care have to suffer?

Well based on the testimony of the PPs who've been treated by a male midwife and found him to be soooo much better than all the female ones it seems we should be clamouring for it to become an all male profession. God the misogyny here gets so depressing.

Speaking up doesn’t have to be done at the time of giving birth. There is a whole pregnancy to advocate for yourself and request you don’t have any men on your team.

Yes.

Those stats are rapes from over 12 months so 3.3% of women were raped during that year.

https://rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/statistics-sexual-violence/

Well yes but as has been covered already on this thread, requesting a female midwife before the birth means basically diddily squat when it comes to it and there aren’t enough female midwives on the rota to cover everyone. I don’t think anyone even read my birth plan, it was a total waste of time.

And 1 in 30 women being raped over a 12 month period is pretty depressing :(