To be shocked at the net migration figures currently being discussed

[Feelingathomenow]

Yesterday’s figures discussed by the Tories stated that since 2010 the net migration figures to the UK has equalled the size of the population of Wales. Today we were told the figures to June 2023 showed a net migration figure of nearly 1 million for that year, for the year to June 2024 this had reduced to a mere 3/4 of a million. The numbers coming in of the boats per year alone is equal to a large town. AIBU to think this has to stop. We need to immediately crack down on people allowed into this country- limit it to urgently needed highly skilled jobs and start offshore processing (or similar) of the people who are here illegally (basically like many other countries).

We just can’t cope with those numbers. - no wonder our infrastructure is collapsing, we have a housing crisis etc.

I want to hear from the government how they are going to tackle it. We have heard from the Tories now it is over to Starmer.

What countries are they?

BTW - other countries have levels of immigration as high or higher than the UK. Why aren't their healthcare and housing systems collapsing?

There is trouble in every single European country with high migration.
Germany has major issues just now (not obviously all related to migration, but it exacerbates tensions).

Well, we can't cope with those numbers if we don't build housing or invest in our NHS.

The thing is, people are starting to realise that they don't want the green belt build all over just to house ever-increasing numbers of immigrants.

You'd think wouldn't you.

But if you look at the evidence you'll see house prices are high in some areas with very small immigrant communities. And also vastly lower compared to average wages in places like Germany and France. But then they don't have stupid planning laws like we do in the UK.

And the evidence on the impact of immigration on wage levels is also not clear cut. It's become something that people constantly repeat - that immigration depresses wages, and all I can assume is that people read this stuff on social media or in the right wing press and don't follow it up by looking at what the evidence has to say about it, because believing that immigrants make us all poorer suits their narrative.

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/the-labour-market-effects-of-immigration/

@SuzieNine
@TheDisgustingBrothers

"No of course they will age too (although they may do that in their own countries rather than here as certainly in care and agriculture many return once they have made enough to buy a property at home).

There’s no solution really other than trying to weather the next 20 years as the baby boom generation die out and hope that the fertility rate increases to something approaching break even - although it’s in free fall at the moment and showing no signs of turning around.

it’s the same problem as every developed country: too many old people kept alive by modern medicine and not enough young people."

Or alternatively in the future import even more legal migrants to deal with today's ageing migrants and so on and so on.

The solution is as you say is to weather the next 20 years as the baby boom generation dies out. Actually from an environmental point of view a shrinking population has major benefits. There is for example a massive correlation between CO2 in the atmosphere and population increases.

@izimbra do you think the population should keep increasing?

Say in the next few decades where would you like to see the population for the U.K.?

"The thing is, people are starting to realise that they don't want the green belt build all over just to house ever-increasing numbers of immigrants."

Home owners in the UK don't want anyone building any housing anywhere near them for any reason.

And nobody - literally nobody - is advocating 'building all over the green belt'.

I am citing standard knowledge for any asylum claim. I do know it’s serious stuff and it is a myth that anyone will be taken at their word.

I attend an annual educational event on the topic and know from lawyers who specialise in the area that it can take years to put together enough paperwork to mount a successful asylum claim. People flee without documents in fear of their lives, they need witness statements, etc

Make it attractive make not working unsustainable if you can work

Please see above

@TheDisgustingBrothers pardon the derail but love the name, one of my all time favourites.

@Hunglikeapolevaulter The thing is, people are starting to realise that they don't want the green belt build all over just to house ever-increasing numbers of immigrants.

Despite the increase in immigration, the overall population of the UK is almost static because more people are dying and the birth rate is falling.

The UK population has only increased by about 227,000 a year for the last 4 years, including the "ever-increasing number of immigrants" - i.e. at the rate of only 0.33% per year. Without immigration, the population of the UK would have fallen in 2022 and 2023 by around one million - and most of the immigrants arriving are "net contributors" to the economy. This low rate of increase, particularly the low birth rate, will mean that in future years there will be too few young people to do the productive work that pays for the public services that everyone, but particularly the low-waged, unemployed and the old, rely on - pretty much the situation that the country already finds itself in. To grow the economy the country needs more, economically productive people.

@izimbra

Two points stand out from that article:

"Low-wage workers are more likely to lose out from immigration while medium and high-paid workers are more likely to gain, but the effects are small"

And

First, immigration had little or no impact on average employment or unemployment of existing workers. Second, where an impact was found, it was usually concentrated among certain groups – i.e. a negative effect for those with lower education.

So migration tends to fill the low income low skilled jobs. Without the option of cheap imported labour employers would have no choice but to raise salaries in those jobs, which in turn would motivate people that are currently economically inactive to come back into the workforce because the difference between the benefits they currently receive and these new higher salaries for low skilled jobs makes it worth their while.

Please see above

Do you mean a witness statement?

It's absolutely possible to lie to claim asylum. I put an example from the BBC World Service, which is reputable and a decent interview

What happened there for that to work?

"PeloMom
@Feelingathomenow you keep on going on about making people to work as social workers and at care homes. How exactly do you enforce that? How do you make them do something they don’t want to (social work has been short of people for decades, it’s not new)?"

If you increase the salaries then you will have no difficulty finding people wanting to work in care homes or anything else for that matter.

I think that's something we need to continue to discuss and we need to look at how resources are distributed. At the moment population density in the UK is half that of the Netherlands, where people have a very good quality of life. I believe that immigrants make a huge contribution to this country - they create jobs, they contribute to our prosperity and our infrastructure.

The 'we're full to bursting' narrative is just bollocks. We're not. We had years of austerity that have damaged our public services, and we're a victim of our own stupid planning laws and the ideologically motivated 'RTB' policy that has decimated affordable housing stock. The Conservatives were incredibly negligent to allow immigration levels to increase as they have while also pursuing housing and healthcare policies which have been so damaging to ordinary people.

Buy hey - grist to the mill. Like Trump they can now blame immigrants for everything, and use immigration as a wedge issue to get back into power.

The UK population has only increased by about 227,000 a year for the last 4 years, including the "ever-increasing number of immigrants" - i.e. at the rate of only 0.33% per year

That's nearly an extra million people in the last four years. That's almost another Birmingham. It does feel a bit ever-increasing if you think of another Birmingham every four years.

So massively increase costs to local authorities and families - and pay for it, how? Big increases in council tax? Jack up income tax?

I agree. Of course there plenty of people who do those jobs, who aren't immigrants. I never realised until I discovered MN just how some people live - as you said, very limited life experience!

“At the moment population density in the UK is half that of the Netherlands, where people have a very good quality of life.”

You might want to look at who Netherlands just voted into power…

This is largely correct but equally with a greater proportion of the workforce back in work (albeit at higher wages) then the tax revenues will increase.

Currently 22% of 16-64 year olds are economically inactive or 9 million people. It is simply not sustainable for the remaining workforce of 33 million to support through their taxes 9 million economically inactive and another 12 million retired.

Or even the riots that went on for days

www.nbcnews.com/news/world/amsterdam-violence-anti-immigrant-islamophobia-netherlands-antisemitis-rcna180455

@TheDisgustingBrothers , @EasternStandard

LGBQ issues turn out to be a factor in only about 2% of UK asylum applications as of 2022, as reported at uk.gov. These applications have a slightly lower success rate than others and the rejected ones have a lower rate of successful appeal, about 9% lower. In 2022 there were just over 1300 applicants with an LBGQ focus of whom just over 1000 were successful.

Furthermore asylum applicants listing an LGBQ focus are concentrated from certain countries, specifically Iran, Pakistan and Uganda.

None of this is suggestive of large scale fraud, quite the opposite. I refer you to uk.gov or the Oxford Migration Laboratory with any further questions you may have.

@izimbra but it does actually mean a population increase. If we got to say 100m in size in next few decades are you ok with that?

You've missed off the bit where is says 'but the effect is small'.

It's also ameliorated by having a decent minimum wage, or a living wage.

"So migration tends to fill the low income low skilled jobs. Without the option of cheap imported labour employers would have no choice but to raise salaries in those jobs, which in turn would motivate people that are currently economically inactive to come back into the workforce"

The vast majority of people who are economically inactive are so because they are ill or they are carers.

You're also completely ignoring the fact that a big increase in salaries of care workers and agricultural workers - which is what you're arguing for - will massively jack up the cost of social care and food!

Please see my post above