To be shocked at the net migration figures currently being discussed

[Feelingathomenow]

Yesterday’s figures discussed by the Tories stated that since 2010 the net migration figures to the UK has equalled the size of the population of Wales. Today we were told the figures to June 2023 showed a net migration figure of nearly 1 million for that year, for the year to June 2024 this had reduced to a mere 3/4 of a million. The numbers coming in of the boats per year alone is equal to a large town. AIBU to think this has to stop. We need to immediately crack down on people allowed into this country- limit it to urgently needed highly skilled jobs and start offshore processing (or similar) of the people who are here illegally (basically like many other countries).

We just can’t cope with those numbers. - no wonder our infrastructure is collapsing, we have a housing crisis etc.

I want to hear from the government how they are going to tackle it. We have heard from the Tories now it is over to Starmer.

That's the way you use the language and says a lot about you. There are plenty of ex-pat Chinese and I'm not sure they'd consider themselves white.

As in the extra journey to the UK is comparatively not that dangerous?

We do need migration of working age people who are willing and able to work.

However, we are getting many people with complex health needs who require expensive support and are unlikely to be able to contribute to the economy. I work in a special needs school in London, and I would say that approx a third of our children are immigrants to UK, with another third being the children of immigrants. Due to poorer antenatal care leading to more birth related brain injuries and intermarriage increasing chance of genetic abnormalities, there are a much higher proportion of children with disabilities amongst immigrants than those born here. Our SEN schools are bursting at the seams despite the number of special school places in our borough doubling in past 5 years.

I don't blame the parents of these children, any loving parent of a child with high medical needs would want to move to a place where their child can access free healthcare to support their needs. But this is a ticking time bomb. 1 children with really complex needs can cost upwards of half a million per year with education, health, social care, housing, disability payments, and as a responsible society, once they are here we gave to support them. But it is unsustainable long term

Oof, you might want to look inward a bit there because no one said anything about race or skin colour.

Do you think all British people who have moved to Spain are white and all people who have migrated to the UK are not white?

It's also a ladder to choice and opportunity. Not having a degree restricts options and there are some career paths that are completely not open without a degree. I'd prefer university was completely free (but no one wants to pay for that), but do we really want a UK where it works US style and becoming a doctor means maybe 300k in debt (and the chance of failing an exam right at the end and never qualifying)? I'm not clear what harm these foreign students are causing that could possibly be worse than that!

Why should a child who doesn't come from money not be able to be a history professor, or a teacher, or a social worker? Maybe not everyone who goes to university ends up financially making money, but limiting social mobility only hurts people born with fewer opportunities.

No - it’s racism pure and simple. Ex pats are what white British people who go to live elsewhere call themselves and migrants are what they call people who come to the UK who aren’t white. I’m asking so people might do some critical thinking around it, not much hope I know!

Wrong. As I already said, in Gulf countries it is standard for everyone who isn't a local to be referred to as an expat. This is to underscore that they are guests working there, not immigrants with a pathway to remain beyond their job contracts.

I have never heard a white British person describe a person of colour at an ex-pat ever. And white British people have given out to me about immigrants (apparently not realising I am one), presumably because I’m white. If you think race doesn’t play a factor in Britain, I’m flabbergasted. I can’t understand how someone would come to that conclusion but maybe if all you read is the daily mail it’s possible.

Of course it is dangerous but so, often, is the rest of the trip. And we cannot know how much reaching the UK may mean to someone. They may have family or friends here, they believe they have useful language skills, and they have been sold on the idea of British Values (including fair play).

Who is to say the relative risk does not seem worth the gamble?

I live in Germany and we've taken over 1 million Syrians and 1 million Ukrainians just in the last few years. Just refugees, not regular migration. One in four Germans (citizens) now has an immigrant background. So a massive shift is happening. Yes there have been problems (Cologne, many other knife attacks ), and the whole of society has to figure everything out, from how to propagate European values, to how to get more migrant women qualified and into the workforce, and speaking German, etc, etc. But the fact is the jobs are there, especially lower skilled jobs, that can't be filled by locals, and we need workers to pay pensions down the line. It's a massive challenge and massive opportunity. I'm just not sure if the UK; like Germany and others, can actually take charge of this issue.

Journey to Europe is fraught with life-threatening danger, how so? And is it more fraught with danger than the journey across the channel from France to UK?

There are plenty of cities in European countries where English is spoken by plenty so the excuse that their mates are here is a bit of a rubbish one isn’t it really. Why should we as a country grant them asylum just cos their mates are here?

like PP said, you’d do well to read the BBC interview with the Vietnamese people trafficker who shares his journey and the journey of others who are travelling here. It’s eye opening.

Well yes - but here there is little at 18 and what there is min wage work with no obvious progression to better paid or more responsibility.

That will probably vary in other areas - but peers of DD1 who didn't go on to uni have either become neets or have p/t low paid work and are stuck at home with parents.

You see there should be a discussion about whether there should be requirements for medical insurance etc that come along with work/student/family visas. That's the sort of change that makes sense. But all too quickly this turns into a polarised discussion on immigration good v immigration bad. It's just not that simple.

Kids from less affluent backgrounds would be sensible to choose the highly competitive apprenticeship degrees, let's not pretend that university is not a luxury choice for many people.

Steady on, your prejudice is showing.

I agree, there is no way we would want to be following the footsteps of their dreadful record on human rights, but that does not prevent us from supporting our fair share of asylum seekers in a humane and dignified way.

Germany keeps statistics about the background of offenders, whether they have a German passport or not. Massive problem with knife crime over the last 5 years, 50% of which is committed by people without a German passport. Similar stats for other types of violent crime but I can't remember the details. No wonder the UK government stopped doing the same.

I am interested in policy and you briefly fooled me into believing that you were, also. There is always a good story or a hundred to support any position under the sun.

Friendship is not adequate grounds for a claim of asylum as I am sure you know. However to some extent the appeal of the UK may be a legacy cost of the British Empire. Britain was built on the blood and sweat of these peoples’ ancestors.

If the asylum crisis worldwide boils over, our descendants will pay a very high price.

I’d be surprised if you would even know what actual racism considering you throw the word around like nobody’s business.

It’s just another word that those without valid argument throw about when they don’t know what else to say and haven’t got anything useful to contribute.

patriotic? Racist!
concerned about immigration? Racist!
can tell the different between net-takers and non net-takers? Racist!

yawn 🙃

The UK is relatively attractive partly because of the language, partly because UK public services don’t seem to ask many questions when people come in wanting help and treatment, and partly because the UK doesn’t have an ID card system or actually try very hard to keep tabs on who is here.

The language isn’t something that can be changed. It might help if the UK had an ID card system (with chips) and required people to use ID cards to perform all kinds of actions in every day life, as it would make life into a very inconvenient grind for those without ID and would eventually put a lot of people off coming. This has been pointed out again and again, but UK politicians seem frightened of having this discussion as a small % of the population goes berserk when the ID card issue is discussed.

There is an urgent need to review the situation on dependents IMO. There really is not much point trying to use immigration to shore up shortages in public services if you are letting each immigrant bring in one or several non working dependents who are going to end up using a bunch of expensive public services - it’s just putting yourself back to square one!

Getting a grip on these issues would help people to be calmer and more understanding about normal and necessary immigration. In Japan where I live, immigration seems to be a far less contentious issue than it is in the UK despite large numerical increases, and I think that’s partly because the controls are much, much stricter. If people start to get the sense that immigration is not fully under the government’s control, a sense of panic starts to develop, not because people are racist or bad but because it’s natural and understandable to want to feel that the government is in charge and in control of who the heck comes into your country.

Yes but as we’ve established from past posts you don’t actually know enough about the policies yet you’ve been quoting them all. ‘As per the so and so act’ or ‘according to the XYZ act of 1984’ etc. but you’ve not been able to tell me what evidences someone has to provide to be granted asylum, you just keep telling me how high the bar is and how difficult it is. The 906,000 tells me otherwise but okay.

You seem in denial that many have found gaps or loopholes in the policies you share or perhaps you don’t want to believe that there are people with poor intentions claiming asylum under false pretences. That’s not my burden to claim and as you say, we will ultimately pay the price.

Hi, @Psychologymam

I am also a white immigrant from one of those, you know, cool countries. I live in a ‘naice’ village and I am married to an Englishman. People don’t hesitate to talk to me about the immigration problem and it’s very clear I am not part of it; few if any white people are. I agree completely that there is a racial component to the issue.

It’s a common phrase in other languages and cultures too.
It just means you share a native homeland.

For example, “desi”

But that's the problem. When everyone has a degree it becomes valueless, so you get a masters...or two.,.or three and a doctorate....and what if you don't have one because you couldn't countenance coming out into an uncertain job market with a mountain of debt?

Interestingly, when I was on a hen doo in Tenerife recently, there were huge signs saying “Homes for Locals” and I thought that’s absolutely fair enough. If folk born in an area are completely priced out by foreigners- regardless of where they’re from, then push back will happen. It’s not just Brits that are fed up with it clearly.

But is it really a negligible number or does it only appear low compared to the rather high total?
I’ve listened to a podcast on immigration where they stated that in the 90s average immigration levels in the UK were around 55,000 per year. That’s not that far off the 30,000 who arrive on boats only.
The numbers for the 1990s (among others) are also mentioned here: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_immigration_to_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=In%20the%201970s%2C%20an%20average,to%20around%2097%2C000%20by%201999.