To be shocked at the net migration figures currently being discussed

[Feelingathomenow]

Yesterday’s figures discussed by the Tories stated that since 2010 the net migration figures to the UK has equalled the size of the population of Wales. Today we were told the figures to June 2023 showed a net migration figure of nearly 1 million for that year, for the year to June 2024 this had reduced to a mere 3/4 of a million. The numbers coming in of the boats per year alone is equal to a large town. AIBU to think this has to stop. We need to immediately crack down on people allowed into this country- limit it to urgently needed highly skilled jobs and start offshore processing (or similar) of the people who are here illegally (basically like many other countries).

We just can’t cope with those numbers. - no wonder our infrastructure is collapsing, we have a housing crisis etc.

I want to hear from the government how they are going to tackle it. We have heard from the Tories now it is over to Starmer.

No. It’s about the evidence

There was a really good piece on BBC World Service interviewing a Vietnamese person who was granted asylum in the U.K.

He was blunt on how he did it, he lied.

A condition of the interview was that he wasn't exposed and could stay. He did it because he thought people were being sold a false lie on paying to be here and they should not do it.

I have no ill will towards this man, he was sold to as many are. But he also knew the system.

Did you think that would be possible? That outcome?

The other issue with asylum seekers, again from data I've seen from Germany and Scandinavia, is that about 70% make regular trips back to their home countries for holidays. I would have thought that the bar for asylum was fleeing deadly danger and never able to return, so that rather suprised me.

But this isn’t true. When my dad died in a care home 2 years ago all except 1 of the staff were not immigrants, all came originally from the local area.

No of course they will age too (although they may do that in their own countries rather than here as certainly in care and agriculture many return once they have made enough to buy a property at home).

There’s no solution really other than trying to weather the next 20 years as the baby boom generation die out and hope that the fertility rate increases to something approaching break even - although it’s in free fall at the moment and showing no signs of turning around.

it’s the same problem as every developed country: too many old people kept alive by modern medicine and not enough young people.

@Ytcsghisn "We at importing low skilled migrants to then pay for them to live. Immigrants are not net contributors. Not a controversial statement, but a true one."

Except of course it isn't true.

Evidence that proves the true effect of immigration on the UK | Research Impact - UCL – University College London

European Economic Area (EEA) immigrants contributed 34% more in taxes than they received as benefits, while UK natives’ tax payments over the same period were 11% lower than the hand-outs they received.

But the Brexiters didn't like this and persuaded sufficient people into believing that "immigration" was something negative - so now to replace the millions of EU citizens who were encouraged to fuck off back where they came from, the UK is forced into finding labour from elsewhere.

If that’s accurate, surely this should automatically mean their successful asylum claim is null and voided as the person no longer needs the protection of the state

How high is the bar for an asylum
seeker to say he’s gay and comes from a country where that is illegal

It may not be true where you are but it absolutely is here (affluent SE rural area). Agricultural workers are all Central European and care home workers are all Nigerian.

@SuzieNine tech will change things. The babies being born today will enter a different workforce

I really don’t know, and no one on this thread claimed the system is perfect.

Why not do a little research to find out how many make an asylum claim based on persecution for sexual preferences? Bearing in mind that approximately 3-8% of populations are gay, you need an awful lot of claims from a country where homosexuality is illegal to conclude that the system is being abused.

My understanding is that religious persecution can sometimes be straightforward to evidence, but not always.

If we cut down on immigration be ready to pay more for goods and services. Your loved ones will struggle even more to get good quality social care. The health service will struggle with care assistants nurses and doctors. Waiting times will increase. Prices in hospitality restaurants cafes takeways and hotels will increase. Crops will not be picked.

Universities will struggle as overseas students keep them going. Some towns will struggle as they rely on students. It may mean salaries will increase in these industries which would be great but we will all have to pay for it.

Absolutely. And of course some industries that are highly dependent on immigrant workforces, such as agriculture and building, could be rendered far more efficient by pervasive use of automation.

I don’t think the care sector is ready for heavy automation yet though.

Nonsense.... we managed perfectly well until 2019 with immigration around 200k.

Have we all suddenly got old?

the people imported now, will need care, so import even more?

No, it needs to stop or rather go back to historic norms.

All the things you mention have got far worse since legal migration has shot up!!! go figure!!

Well, you’re the one that made the claim that they must provide quite a significant amount of evidence and that it isn’t just based on their word. the burden of proof lies with you to prove that’s correct, not me.

I simply asked what evidence a man claiming he is at risk of persecution due to being gay would have to provide to prove he’s gay, that’s all. If you don’t know then you can just say you made it up..

But those individuals who work in areas with heavy automation could work in a care home when AI takes their jobs

@poetryandwine how would you evidence a sexual preference leading to the need for asylum?

I don't think the figure you give is any indication. The system currently has many barriers, some will be able to overcome those but not everyone.

I don't mean the system once you're here but trying to get here, that part is tough, risky and expensive.

I suppose there was a time the UK could've coped with all this, in the sense that there was a time we could build railways, docks, infrastructure, even brand new cities! But that time has passed for the UK now, we are circling the drain. Managed decline. Are all these people such a boost at this point? I'm still not convinced that sheer numbers are the answer. We need so many extra people here....because there are so many extra people here? As someone said upthread?

@Feelingathomenow you keep on going on about making people to work as social workers and at care homes. How exactly do you enforce that? How do you make them do something they don’t want to (social work has been short of people for decades, it’s not new)?

High levels of immigration is a fantastic way of
1 keeping wages down and fight inflation
2 keep property prices high
3 increase GDP

This is great for companies but generally terrible for the working person.

My local church is full of old English ladies and young men from Afghanistan.

I see the Afghans walking past my house to the church every Sunday without fail, and I also see them walking to Friday prayers at the local mosque.

@louddumpernoise Have we all suddenly got old?

Yes - as explained to you back on Page 19.

This is exactly what has happened. The median age in the UK passed 40 years old in 2021/22 - in 1980 the median age was 33, and in 2000 it was 36.

@majesticallyopposite

"There are racist comments on this thread though. Denying that there is ever a racist element doesn't help anymore than calling everyone who wants controls racist."

I agree and would wholeheartedly support you in criticising the racist comments on this thread.

Please could you give me some examples of the racist posts on this thread as I haven't seen any.

Well, we can't cope with those numbers if we don't build housing or invest in our NHS.

Which is what the Tories did for 14 years all the while drumming up hatred and resentment of immigrants as a political wedge issue - and this is the important bit - while simultaneously inviting in vast numbers of immigrants.

BTW - other countries have levels of immigration as high or higher than the UK. Why aren't their healthcare and housing systems collapsing?

I don't suppose you've noticed voting shifts in the EU and US?

It's also terrible for Government spending and taxpayers as the Government then has to pay for the 9 million 16-64 year olds who are economically inactive. At 22% of that age group one in five are economically inactive.