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To be shocked at the net migration figures currently being discussed

1000 replies

Feelingathomenow · 28/11/2024 11:06

Yesterday’s figures discussed by the Tories stated that since 2010 the net migration figures to the UK has equalled the size of the population of Wales. Today we were told the figures to June 2023 showed a net migration figure of nearly 1 million for that year, for the year to June 2024 this had reduced to a mere 3/4 of a million. The numbers coming in of the boats per year alone is equal to a large town. AIBU to think this has to stop. We need to immediately crack down on people allowed into this country- limit it to urgently needed highly skilled jobs and start offshore processing (or similar) of the people who are here illegally (basically like many other countries).

We just can’t cope with those numbers. - no wonder our infrastructure is collapsing, we have a housing crisis etc.

I want to hear from the government how they are going to tackle it. We have heard from the Tories now it is over to Starmer.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Another2Cats · 28/11/2024 16:45

midgetastic · 28/11/2024 13:05

Given all the data I have read in the past - migrants tend to to contribute more to society / economy than people born here so I doubt they would be dying anywhere

Seems a little stingy though to make them pay for their own healthcare and ours

It's complicated. Those that came here to do low paying jobs (pre-Brexit) do not contribute more over their lifetime compared to the average person born here, they contribute less.

But those on average or high wages do contribute more - largely because we haven't paid to educate them and raise them. So there are not those costs.

A number of people here have been saying "Who's going to do all the rubbish jobs that we won't do?"

Well, increasingly, it's going to be people born here.

With the exception of some jobs like care home workers and nurses who can be employed on lower wages, anyone who wants to come to work in the UK (with the exception of seasonal work eg on farms) has to be paid a minimum of £38,700.

For context, the median salary for a full time employee in the UK is £37,430.

If you want to be a dustbin person (refuse collector) you are not going to be paid anywhere near that amount. I just checked and Hull council are advertising for this role and paying up to £25,854 per year.

An immigrant could not come here and work as a refuse collector.

There are lower salary limits for care home workers, nurses and some other jobs. The exceptions to the general rule include job roles like nuclear scientists (but only in Scotland), archaeologists, lab technicians, professional dancers, orchestral musicians, graphic designers, jobs in the fishing industry, horse racing grooms and work riders.

Then there are a lot of construction roles; stonemasons, bricklayers, roofers, carpenters & joiners, welders.

If an immigrant has one of these skills then they do not have to be paid the higher figure of £38,700.

If they don't have one of these skills then they need to have a job which pays at least that much.

There are other routes. For example, recent graduates under the age of 26 have lower limits or those with a PhD in a STEM subject.

But, generally speaking, the era of immigrants coming here and doing the very low paid jobs (apart from seasonal farm labouring) is very much over.

Bizarred · 28/11/2024 16:45

The trouble is, with Brexit, we have shot ourselves in the foot, because we now can't leave so easily. Our children can't study in Europe so easily, or work - nor can we - so we have effectively trapped ourselves here. So we have people coming in, but not so many leaving. I'm not sure the people that voted Leave really thought that through.

drspouse · 28/11/2024 16:45

LlynTegid · 28/11/2024 14:41

There are places called universities that I don't think should be.

And what's your qualification for deciding what's a university and what isn't?

MoMhathair · 28/11/2024 16:46

Naunet · 28/11/2024 16:42

What do you need explained?

What the difference is between the many millions of people who came to Britain over the past couple of thousand years - the people who created the current population of Britain - and the people who are coming here now, i.e. what you perceive to be the difference between migration and immigration. To me the difference is just a small semantic one - immigration means going into a country, migration can mean going in or out, but you seem to see some other difference that I don't.

Littlemissgobby · 28/11/2024 16:46

Fluufer · 28/11/2024 16:42

They'd be a lot more neglected without all the migrants working in the care homes....

Exactly I have carers from Pakistan

Keleshey · 28/11/2024 16:46

Some really horrible comments here about British people not wanting to do "shitty" jobs (so far we've had bin men, care home workers, fruit picking to name but a few). Perhaps many don't want to do those jobs because people such as yourselves clearly look down on them and their "low skilled" work.

I know many British people in those jobs, including within my own family. We've had cleaners and chamber maids (I have done both of those jobs). My DS grandfather is a bin man and I have cousins who have done fruit picking. I have so many friends working in care homes and other jobs that many of you are claiming British people are too fussy to work in.

Yes, we do need people to do those jobs and maybe there'd be more British born people willing to do them (and they're often not easy jobs to do) if people gave them credit for working hard and stopped looking down on those doing them.

Doijb · 28/11/2024 16:46

I’m sorry many of the people coming in actually hate Britain and Brits. They view their own values as superior and have no interest whatsoever in integrating.

The previous generations of women fought hard to further women’s rights here. In many countries women’s rights are non existent. In Iraq they are lowering the age of consent to NINE. Those people simply have no place here. There is a fundamental incompatibility.

And I am a British-Indian Sikh so my views have nothing to do with racism.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 28/11/2024 16:49

The Romans? Nowhere near all of them. Certainly not the Saxons or Vikings or Normans.

And that's what constitutes much of today's native population.
And before you say they're not native, they got to Britain before the Maoris got to New Zealand, for instance.

ChubbyBubbyBoo · 28/11/2024 16:49

Simonjt · 28/11/2024 16:24

So only white people can be british? Bit weird to check the passports of people at the park, unless you actually mean that people who aren’t white use the park.

because that’s what I said 🙄

MoMhathair · 28/11/2024 16:49

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 28/11/2024 16:49

The Romans? Nowhere near all of them. Certainly not the Saxons or Vikings or Normans.

And that's what constitutes much of today's native population.
And before you say they're not native, they got to Britain before the Maoris got to New Zealand, for instance.

Edited

Wow I didn't know people actually thought like this.

Zimunya · 28/11/2024 16:49

MauveCrow · 28/11/2024 13:01

Who will do the shitty jobs??

I'm sure slave owners asked the same thing. How everyone applauds this inverse racist shite astounds me, but it's usually normal that left wingers turn out to be the real racists.

Why don't we make sure the there are no shitty jobs, either through higher renumeration or better working conditions or preferably both.

The economy will not collapse without a million Uber eats drivers entering the country each year.

It only takes one simple change to policy to fix all this. No access to the NHS, benefits system, education or social housing for 5 years after arrival, unless you pay up front. Anyone self sufficient will stay, the spongers will leave.

This is ALREADY the case. DH is a (legal) immigrant, and his visa clearly states "No access to public funds." That means he can't claim SSP, unemployment benefit, or any other benefits / public funds. As a part of his visa application he had to pay an NHS surcharge (approximately £3,ooo). He works in a highly skilled position in construction. He pays tax and NI and everything else he is supposed to pay. He is a net contributor. I think all of this is quite correct (as does he) but I'm really surprised that so many people are unaware of the no access to public funds rule. No wonder there's such bad feeling towards legal migration on here.

louddumpernoise · 28/11/2024 16:50

Lampzade · 28/11/2024 16:21

As other posters have pointed out most of the immigration is legal migration.
The UK has an ageing population and therefore the number of care homes and therefore care workers has increased. Who do you think does these jobs?
immigrants from countries such as Nigeria and the Philippines .
In addition , universities are in dire straits and need international students in order to survive.
Many international students are paying three times more than UK students
The number crossing the channel by boat is a dip in the ocean ( excuse the pun) in comparison to the legal immigrants

But why do we need so many now? has the country aged dramatically in the last 4 years???
Care homes still closing, still 6 week waits for care packages.... still got massive labour shortages...

Students were bring in dependents as were all other workers, prior to this EU workers mainly came here, didn't bring dependents and often went back home after a few years... the migrants/students and dependents from Asia/Africa never will.

We voted for this.

Littlemissgobby · 28/11/2024 16:50

Keleshey · 28/11/2024 16:46

Some really horrible comments here about British people not wanting to do "shitty" jobs (so far we've had bin men, care home workers, fruit picking to name but a few). Perhaps many don't want to do those jobs because people such as yourselves clearly look down on them and their "low skilled" work.

I know many British people in those jobs, including within my own family. We've had cleaners and chamber maids (I have done both of those jobs). My DS grandfather is a bin man and I have cousins who have done fruit picking. I have so many friends working in care homes and other jobs that many of you are claiming British people are too fussy to work in.

Yes, we do need people to do those jobs and maybe there'd be more British born people willing to do them (and they're often not easy jobs to do) if people gave them credit for working hard and stopped looking down on those doing them.

I agree that is wrong there are hard working btitish and hard working immigrants working these low laid jobs. Which is wrong. But it shouldn't be them against you. We need workers from the uk and abroad. Those that want a number plucked out of their head are very wrong it doesn't work like that . We have a shortage of certain areas

Moonlightstars · 28/11/2024 16:50

dogmandu · 28/11/2024 16:13

@Moonlightstars
I don't understand the obsession with borders or fearing otherness. It has always been like this though.

let me enlighten you then, from my point of view and from my fears. I'm a free woman. I can walk in the open with the sun on my face and the wind blowing in my hair. I can talk to men if I want to. my parents won't force me to marry a second cousin. There are many more reasons, but this is for starters

But that hasn't happened my neighbours are a brilliant mix of religion and races we all get along well. Weirdly none of them have made me marry my cousin (which would be quite funny as we are all female😁).

quoque · 28/11/2024 16:50

TheDisgustingBrothers · 28/11/2024 16:39

I’m guessing the other 90% weren’t as willing to ‘train’ for care roles like PP suggested then. 👀

I'm not sure I quite see your argument here, I'm afraid. There was mention of the care industry needing workers, and I said that where there are jobs, people - including migrant workers - will train for them.

At the moment, apart from the quarter who are here on education visas and are therefore net contributors, bringing money into the country, migrant workers work heavily in the hospitality sector as well as in transport and storage, and information, communication and IT.

I also see from the link below that the 10% figure I mentioned above relates only to NEW visas - right now, 20% of non-EU born migrant workers work in the health and care industries. How much more do you want of them? They are just as needed in other industries.

Much of the information you seem to want is freely available here: https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview/

Migrants in the UK Labour Market: An Overview - Migration Observatory

This briefing looks at the jobs migrant workers do, their role in the UK labour market and their labour market integration.

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-labour-market-an-overview

CappuccinoChocolate · 28/11/2024 16:51

drspouse · 28/11/2024 16:45

And what's your qualification for deciding what's a university and what isn't?

It's really really hard to lose a student with a visa in Higher Education - especially with the threat of an audit from the Border Agency hanging over you -it is a highly regulated area , as is those who are allowed to take international students, and those institutions who are given degree awarding powers are not there by just filling in a form. Any Higher Ed institution who relies on international student funding would be crazy to let breaches happen and 'lose' students - they risk being denied the the ability to take any international applicants at all.

So I wont believe your mate thanks.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 28/11/2024 16:51

Wow I didn't know people actually thought like this.

Care to elaborote? How should people be thinking instead?

Fluufer · 28/11/2024 16:51

Zimunya · 28/11/2024 16:49

This is ALREADY the case. DH is a (legal) immigrant, and his visa clearly states "No access to public funds." That means he can't claim SSP, unemployment benefit, or any other benefits / public funds. As a part of his visa application he had to pay an NHS surcharge (approximately £3,ooo). He works in a highly skilled position in construction. He pays tax and NI and everything else he is supposed to pay. He is a net contributor. I think all of this is quite correct (as does he) but I'm really surprised that so many people are unaware of the no access to public funds rule. No wonder there's such bad feeling towards legal migration on here.

People are clueless. There's so many lies banded about by people who no clue about how the system works these days. Parroting nonsense from 2008.

Naunet · 28/11/2024 16:52

MoMhathair · 28/11/2024 16:46

What the difference is between the many millions of people who came to Britain over the past couple of thousand years - the people who created the current population of Britain - and the people who are coming here now, i.e. what you perceive to be the difference between migration and immigration. To me the difference is just a small semantic one - immigration means going into a country, migration can mean going in or out, but you seem to see some other difference that I don't.

Sorry, you've lost me. If you're talking about the difference between parts the human race leaving Africa and settling across the rest of the world and establishing countries and boarders; and modern day immigration, of leaving your country to move to another, I would have thought it was obvious? Or did you mean something else?

Havanananana · 28/11/2024 16:53

Naunet · 28/11/2024 16:32

Sorry, you think this country was 'founded' by Vikings and Romans?! How does that work then? Are you also calling Roman invaders, immigrants, because that's one hell of a rebrand?

Perhaps not Vikings and Romans, but modern England was indeed "founded" by the Normans (who were at the time perhaps described as being "bloody forrins crossing the Channel in their small boats and stealing our land and jobs and our women ...) and much of the current land ownership and aristocracy can be traced back to 1066 and all that.

No other modern democracy still has unelected lawmakers in the form of Peers and religious figureheads - a situation that has existed since 1215, i.e. only 150 years after the Norman conquest and that was brought about by the noblemen who were all descended from Norman knights who had been given land by William - land that was taken by force from the original owners and given to William's followers and to the Church.

ForRealTurtle · 28/11/2024 16:54

YABVU. It is not people coming in on boats, they are a tiny number. It is people flying in from places like Hong Kong and settling legally. The policy to allow people from Hong Kong to emigrate easily to the UK was publicised in the press. If you did not want it to happen you should have kicked up a fuss then.

Feelingathomenow · 28/11/2024 16:54

Alicecatto · 28/11/2024 15:52

Because the crossing is bloody dangerous.

Maybe they should have left with their female relatives and claimed asylum in one of the many safe countries they went through in order to reach the beaches of France to get on the dangerous boats

OP posts:
Fluufer · 28/11/2024 16:55

Feelingathomenow · 28/11/2024 16:54

Maybe they should have left with their female relatives and claimed asylum in one of the many safe countries they went through in order to reach the beaches of France to get on the dangerous boats

Most do exactly that. The vast majority of refugees stay in neighbouring, mostly developing countries.

PlopSofa · 28/11/2024 16:55

louddumpernoise · 28/11/2024 16:19

As i pointed out, which you seem to have missed, net migration has hovered around 200k, inc under Labour, thats a far cry from 900k

People were very unhappy with even that level, as the article alludes to. But perhaps you’re too young to remember…

MoMhathair · 28/11/2024 16:55

Naunet · 28/11/2024 16:52

Sorry, you've lost me. If you're talking about the difference between parts the human race leaving Africa and settling across the rest of the world and establishing countries and boarders; and modern day immigration, of leaving your country to move to another, I would have thought it was obvious? Or did you mean something else?

My original point is that the UK was built on immigration, ie people moving from other countries to the UK, which has happened all the time in every century. You seemed to be disputing that but I can't figure out how - I don't know whether you're arguing that a certain group came here in prehistoric times and they're the only ones that count as British, everyone else doesn't count or something?

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