Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

😁

I live in a community referenced in this thread where apparently Welsh people switch languages when they hear English people speaking. I live in this same community with English in-laws who speak in a similar upper-class accent to minor royals. I also have many English friends who live here. Isn’t it strange, that not only am I as a Welsh speaker completely unaware of this convention where we exclude English speakers in our company by speaking Welsh; but my English family and friends have never mentioned it happening to them either.

Sometimes as a Welsh speaker, my timings can overlap and I’m closing a conversation in Welsh, but then turn to English to speak to the non-Welsh speaker who's just arrived. Also, if I'm in a group of people, some of whom don’t speak Welsh, I am likely to lapse into Welsh if my question / answer is directed privately to the Welsh speaker.

There isn’t rule which states that English people must never hear native languages, even though they were not present when the original conversation began; or the conversation isn’t directed at them. I have never been accused of rudeness when my timings overlap/ language mixes; but am instead more likely to be asked to continue speaking Welsh so that the other person can hear it / learn.

This makes me proud of my English/ German/ French friends who have settled here and have made significant attempts to learn our language/ culture. My German friend even organised a Twmpath Dawns at her home to celebrate a birthday.

P.s. I was in the company of her German family, speaking German together at this event. Not once did I feel they were excluding me. They were just talking to each other in their own language.
Danke Schon!

I don't know what it's called & I'm not sure of the name of the street but it's pretty common knowledge,

Such common knowledge that you have no idea where it is.

How the hell did you know what language they were speaking before you walked in the shop?

I can tell. It was worse in Spain. They point blank refused to speak English, despite us speaking very slowly and loudly. As soon as we closed the door they were laughing at us, in English.

Clearly not. I've just asked my family, my colleagues and a few friends, all from Carmarthen, and no one has a clue what you mean.

Sounds like you've just made that up, seeing as you can't tell me what it's called or where it is.

@JubileeJuice , It's not in Caerfyrddin. It's Tamed in Cwmderi. The owner is despicable, she's in gaol for shooting a man who used to work for her.

😂 😂 😂

@KimberleyClark , it's all made up like the OP. Tamed is real though. It's in a fly-on-the-wall documentary about the people of the valley.

That is hilarious.

Can you tell us the name of the cafe gifts shop @Nextdoor55 , please?

Is this the same gift shop, that when non Welsh speakers walk in; that the staff start chorusing, 'Ffalabalam-balo-bala-balay?'

@DaNiYmaOHyd
I'm cracking up laughing but I think it's going over a lot of people's heads!

The cafe/gift shop is the same place as the bakery. Tamed. It's in that street just off the High Street.

That Sioned who works there looks like butter wouldn't melt in her mouth but she's a chip of the old block. She has a nasty streak all right.

Same! @DaNiYmaOHyd is brilliant! 😆

Oh I see,should have realised from your user name!

The worst place I visited was just over the border in England. The place even has a Welsh name. I walked into a shop thinking I'd buy a few gifts to take home.

Now before I walked in, the staff were speaking to each other in Welsh., then as soon as I entered they switched to English. Could I get them to serve me in Welsh? Could I heck. Had to resort to some sort of sign language.

When I left, they switched back to Welsh. Ignorant and rude they were.
I didn't buy anything. It happened in a cafe too and the pub.

Fortunately, once back over Offa's Dyke, we stopped at that Scottish burger place. Food wasn't great and not Scottish at all IMO, but we were hungry and thirsty. Couldn't believe they didn't have Irn-Bru on the menu.

You did nothing wrong OP.
I'm amazed you didn't confront them in Welsh, I wouldn't have been able to stop myself.
I don't think this is exclusive to Wales though.
I used to work for a big UK university and we had lots of people from other countries in the group.
When talking as a group in English, sometimes the Chinese/Spanish/French/Russian would start talking to each other in their language mid conversation. It did seem a bit rude like they were having a go at us at the rest of us and didn't want us to understand!

But the waitress wasn’t in England, she was in wales, speaking her native language to her native language Welsh friend. And she said ‘they thought the sauces were free’ because op had wrongly assumed they were and then expected the waitress to get them for free for her (in this probably made up story anyway). If OP were to ‘confront’ them in Welsh, the most she’d need to say would be ‘sorry yes I did, I’ll make sure I pay for them’

She says her entire family speak Welsh, not that her family are entirely Welsh speaking. You are assuming the latter because it better fits your assumptions about her.

That’s some incredible linguistic gymnastics you’re doing there. My assumption is only that the op is completely made up, but replies like this are anything from hilarious to confusing. Only when people talk about the Welsh do they come out with things like this. Never would you say about French/German/Spanish (any other country where English isn’t the first language) ‘they may speak French but that’s doesn’t mean they’re French speaking’ 🤪

The difference is that unlike any of the other countries you mention, English is the most commonly spoken language in the whole of Wales. By a huge margin.

That said, I also doubt the OP’s motive starting this thread and there has been a lot of unnecessary anti-Welsh and anti-English nonsense posted.

I think there were a few cases of this happening in the 1970s along with the holiday homes being subject to arson attacks.

It is no longer the 1970s. Though the issues about holiday homes still apply - fortunately arson is no longer the solution.

Edited: though I am not sure those attacks were in North Wales.