Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

What country liking us would be a compliment? (Please don’t say France)

The trend of charging for tiny sauce sachets is really annoying - it happened to me in Mablethorpe last year. No mention of a charge on the menu or when I asked for some ketchup; didn't realise till I got the bill I'd been charged £2.50 for a sauce sachet! Same as OP, the meal itself wasn't especially cheap, it wasn't a case of airline-style no-frills approach where you pay a very basic price in the first place expecting add-ons to be expensive. At least if they are going to do this they should be open about the cost.

I was travelling in Sarawak and all the locals kept telling me how much they loved English people. So maybe there?

So to sum up this thread - the people of Gwynedd and Anglesey are rude and racist and will speak about you in a foreign language behind your back in front of your face, customer service is non existent and the mountains ain't all that. Better scenery in England. And - this hasn't been highlighted enough so I will add - it never stops raining. Like ever.

So, probably best not to come to Wales. Definitely best not to buy housing here to turn into Airbnb. If you must come I suppose prestatyn is safe-ish, but that's about it.

Richard Osman likes Wales anyway

https://nation.cymru/culture/why-richard-osman-loves-wales-and-the-feeling-is-entirely-mutual-2/

I lived in a Spanish speaking country for a number of years.

I'm Not fluent but could get understanding enough when I returned.

We moved into a new build estate which had some trouble either teens pushing boundaries at first.

So 2 girls deciding to stand outside my window and talk in Spanish about what trouble they were about to cause. (Summer so was open and I'm first floor).

I didn't see or hear them after I stuck my head out and suggested they didn't do what they said they were going to do - and repeated their plans back to them - in English!

Absolutely agree with the poster who said you cannot assume people don't speak another language. Especially nowadays.

She was in a shifty job on shifty pay. And then you expected waitress service from her regarding the sauces. I wouldn't have complained to the manager, just advised her in Welsh or English that it is not a good idea to snag customers off if the cafe is to stay open. And yes, I'd have finished the meal is paid for. So much drama over nothing.

The Welsh bashers have had a lovely time on this thread. Some people really do hate us, don't they? Why?

It's ridiculous that people think that OP is more unreasonable for not speaking Welsh when she is fluent in the language than the cafe staff who are being deliberately rude to paying customers.

This thread is really depressing! The sheer small-minded prejudice and meanness, just because someone is of a different nationality, culture of language group. It baffles me.

I don't think it's an anti-Welsh thread at all (despite some pps trying to play victim!). Talk about 'victim blaming'. I have 3 great friends who are Welsh and Welsh-first-language speakers. There's always banter when it comes to rugby, or jokey remarks about the English/Welsh relationship, but it's totally good-natured and kept in that compartment.

How anyone can justify spiteful, discriminatory, prejudiced behaviour towards a stranger just because they're English (or any other nationality) is beyond me.

And I know the history - so please don't try and suggest that's an excuse! The waitress in the OP's story was just a small-minded cow. I've experienced this kind of hostility myself when on holiday in Wales, and I've heard other anecdotal evidence - it's absolutely a thing.

It’s not sad it’s bigotry bordering on xenophobic. How do they treat ethnic minorities I wonder?

That place is very odd. My DIL went there. That bloke followed the children around shouting at any who didn't stick to the route. He was getting so worked up saying it wasn't a place for children but adults. My DIL in the end had a row with him, other parents backed her. He banned them all for life.

I think he's just a bit mad to be honest.

Should have said that I hugely respect the Celtic nations for cherishing their language and culture - I wish the English had the same attitude. I learned a bit of Welsh so that I could at least greet people in shops etc and ask for things - I think the preservation of the ancient language is important, and it's only good manners for English people to attempt to use it if they can. But the OP's story has made me think it wouldn't be received well even if I did.

Are we talking about Portmeirion? I’ve been there many times and never noticed there was a “route”. We just wandered around. Amazing place.

Well, quite! I wonder - is it just the English, or anyone who isn't speaking Welsh?

Because a small minority of us are unpleasant and that's what tourists remember.

Many, many, years ago, I was in Paris Iooking around a shop, when a male member of staff came up and asked me if I needed any help, but he asked me in English!

I had not said a word to anyone in that shop, I wasn't wearing particularly English brands of clothing, and as far as I know I was neither over or under dressed for a shopping activity in Paris. Also, I wasn't noticeably carrying any publications that could have given my nationality away. The worst thing of course, was that he was absolutely right about me being English 😂

As you are determined to find the OP in the wrong, even if the woman had called OP and her DH a pair of twats, you would still think that it didn't seem worth making a big fuss about.

Surely you understand that talking in a negative way about some customers to other customers within earshot of the people you are talking about is unprofessional and rude?

It’s a similar story in Scotland. My uncle regularly got abuse which included the word “english -” in the tirade whenever he opened his mouth. There are a lot of angry ppl out there who will latch onto anything to have a go at.

People are racist and pathetic everywhere, including Wales.

Add to their online reviews. Better than tourists avoid them.

I'm Scottish, but lived in France for a while and speak fluent French.

A few years ago, I was in a wee shop in a village in Aberdeenshire behind two young French women, who were being incredibly rude about the older lady behind the till who was struggling with their order.

I asked them in French if they would appreciate somebody talking about their mother or grandmother that way, and followed it up with a reminder never to assume that others can't overhear and understand... I don't think they expected that!

That’s crazy. You can get a whole bottle of sauce for that price from supermarkets! And these are probably the same places that expect tips. I’d be okay paying 25p or even 50p not 2.50!

I know it’s not necessarily the food servers fault, but if I’m getting charged those prices for sauces well that’s any tip money gone!

"ANGLESEY MODEL VILLAGE & CAFE (2024) All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go (with Photos)" https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attraction_Review-g28879687-d2228739-Reviews-Anglesey_Model_Village_Cafe-Pen_lon_Anglesey_North_Wales_Wales.html

No this place

There are a minority of unpleasant people in every single country in the world. Welsh people being rude seems to attract more ire.

Well there you are happens all the time on Anglesey and the Lynn peninsula they assume you are English and talk about you, ignore you and serve Locals first.