Caused a scene in a cafe today. Now wondering if we were unreasonable

[pennytoffees]

I'll start off by saying I'm welsh, born and bred and speak the language as does my entire family.

We visited (my mother and I) a local cafe today and had such an awful experience. We haven't been there in years but don't remember it being that bad. We don't sound welsh and spoke to them in English so they obviously assumed that we were tourists. They were very cold towards us.

Anyway, we placed our order and another staff member brought the food over to us. We asked for some sauces to which she replied "go and ask her" and then pointed to the woman at the till. There was a queue and we didn't want the food to go cold so asked her if she could get us some. She gave me a filthy look but reluctantly handed them over. I just want to add that at no point did she say that the sauces cost extra so we just presumed that they were free like most cafes/restaurants. It turns out that they weren't (to be honest I think it's pretty greedy charging customers for sachets of sauce when they've spent £14 on a meal and I don't know any other local businesses that do it but thats another argument). We would have paid with no issues had she explained that to us.

The main issue is that she came over to a couple sat behind us and started talking about us in Welsh thinking that we didn't understand. Funnily enough they asked for some sauces and she gave them for free but when we asked it was an issue. The only difference is they were clearly locals. At this point we'd had enough so I asked to speak with the manager and she asked me "why, is there a problem?". I said "yes but I'm not discussing it with you". Anyway, he came over and I explained what had happened. She was on the other side of the counter and came over and said "I'm sorry, I wasn't talking about you". She wasn't close enough to hear us talking so obviously knew what she had done wrong and was just trying to cover her tracks.

He apologised and we left it at that, didn't even finish our food as we felt so uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think he knew what to do but after reading the reviews online, it's clearly a regular occurrence and he doesn't care how his staff behaves or treats customers. It was embarrassing as everyone was looking at us. We don't like confrontation or causing trouble but felt we had to confront her. I believe we would have been treated differently had they known we were welsh. I was actually embarrassed to be welsh to be honest. They forget it's the tourists keeping them in business.

AIBU? Would you have confronted her or just walked away?

@BreadInCaptivity Wales is beautiful, if there was decent internet and phone coverage there it would be overrun.

Snowdonia is WAY more stunning than the Lake District which looks like it's been painted on (imo). People have different views on what they find beautiful.

@pennytoffees Of course you should have complained. The service was poor and discriminatory. Potential breach of the Equality Act. I hope you didn’t pay.

My friend was once on a bus in a European country where she was living. Two local women sitting behind her were being disparaging about her (assumed) nationality, complaining she should ‘know her place’ and sit further up the bus, presumably thinking she couldn’t understand them.

She turned round and said (perfectly) in their language: ‘I’m British actually. And you’re clearly racist’. Needless to say, she enjoyed the shock on their faces.

Anyone who talks about people in another language is foolish. People speak all sorts of languages you wouldn’t expect.

Sounds horrible. I guess in a touristy area they feel they can get away with an obvious two tier system of service. It's madly unprofessional to talk about customers to anyone, except your colleagues in an instructional way. 'This person would like xyz etc'. The language thing makes it worse as they think they've got a veil of secrecy to be rude and exclusionary or even racist.
Definitely leave a bad review and don't go back.

To be fair I think there might be something said for a bit less technology and more appreciation of the beauty of nature.

But I appreciate that's all well and good when talking about a place you visit rather than live, when so many services now are dependent on internet access.

But yes, it is stunningly beautiful.

I generally find customer service just average everywhere. Don’t really expect too much, but rudeness shouldn’t be tolerated.

That's fine, hopefully you won't come back, then.

@pennytoffees Really sorry to hear this. I hope you managed to salvage the rest of the day with your mum.

I think you were right to complain and it doesn't sound like you made a 'scene'. A reasonable request, with no shouting, is completely appropriate in this context.

I don't find Wales a friendly place to visit full stop so I'm not surprised they were rude. Leave a review. Never return.

What a horrible experience. Charging extra for sauce is bat shit. I'd take my own if my local cafe charged 😂

Dp and I are originally both from Liverpool but live on the Wirral these days. We visit NW all the time and I can say (I'm probably jinxing myself now) that each time I've been I've never once and we go at least 3 times a year had an issue with anyone. I've found locals from all over warm and inviting.
Often making the joke there are more scousers in Wales than the Welsh.

I honestly think any place depends on who you get on the day because I've always heard how the Welsh hate us but never once encountered anyone who's shown that in their behaviour luckily.

I knew this would be North Wales. We went on holiday there frequently. The locals use to go silent and then switch to Welsh when a tourist entered the shop. So often unfriendly or rude.

Was this cafe at the miniature village by any chance? Only I went there once and it was the weirdest place ever. The guy running it was actually having a blazing row with a customer. I thought he was going to punch him. When we later went on trip advisor it seemed this was a regular occurrence. It was the oddest cafe I've been to.

So what exactly did they say about you in Welsh ?

OP your reaction was minimal. Make sure you leave them a terrible review online.

Personally, I’d have probably set up a public protest outside akin to the one Phoebe does outside Monica’s restaurant in Friends. 😄

Followed by a phone call to environmental health saying I’d seen a rat on their counter.

😎

Just don't believe this story. I speak very little Welsh and have an English accent. I've lived in Wales most of my life and have never experienced this nor has anyone I know. It must be very seldom an occurrence and this example is a very weak reason to come to Mumsnet!

People are rude and customer service is bad universally. This has nothing to do with the cafe being in Wales. OP you were right to complain, I hope you were not charged if you didn't finish your food.

We live in the north west of England and often visit wales, it's beautiful and I've never had a problem with the people. But it's a shame that this reputation, plus the proposal of introducing tourist tax could potentially kill tourism in the country.

The best thing you can do is vote with your feet and leave a review so other English speakers can do the same. No way can a cafe in Anglesey be sustained by welsh speakers alone!

What, you mean like every thread about moving to Australia or New Zealand on here?

I wish everyone would stop believing that north Wales is Wales and lumping us all together. There is around 180 miles difference for a start. Do any of you actually have this problem and hostility in South Wales?

I find it hard to believe that the diversity and different worldwide languages spoken especially in Swansea and Cardiff would mean that "the Welsh" would be unfriendly to just English speakers and "the English". Even Welsh speakers in Llanelli and Carmarthen are very friendly to anyone.

Sounds like North Wales is like Scotland in terms of its anti-English racial hate!

I'm in Cheshire but I've worked in North Wales previously for many years and have only had lovely experiences with colleagues, customers and other professionals.

It's a beautiful part of the world

I know the difference between one language being spoken fully and another, believe me. It was a common thing in that area. It wasn’t a mix.

I think you did right to bring it up. Whether to involve the manager or call her upon it in Welsh, I think it makes no difference. It does not sound like they intend to change.
It is really sad. I do love Wales and have never felt unwelcomed here. I hope it does not start now.

Having lived in Cardiff, there’s a definite difference in attitude. I found Cardiff very ‘global’, nobody cared where I was from but there’s no comparison really in terms of numbers of Welsh speakers or even people being local. It’s an extremely attractive city in terms of employment.

Excuse me?