AIBU to think it’s too soon to for the school to be diagnosis autism

[CourageTrouble]

I am writing this on behalf of my friend ( who knows ) I have a daughter with SEN needs EHCP etc but even I am struggling to understand exactly what’s going on with the school and friends DS.
We will call him George.

George is 4, summer born ( end of August ) started primary school September, previously went to private nursery from 9-6 4 days a week due to work commitments.
he was fine in nursery, no issues raised. Performed in the graduation assembly fine etc ( relevant later on ) development checks were all normal during toddler years etc

with in the first week of starting school mum was called in because they said he wasn’t where the curriculum needed him to be and didn’t have focus.
he struggled to settle in the mornings, they asked her to drop him off late and pick him up early ( 15 minutes either way )
by the end of the second week they told her that they were removing him from class and putting him in with the nursery kids and then sent her leaflets via email about parenting and autism.
they then called her in a few times to discuss putting him on the Sen register.
last week they called her in to tell her that he wasn’t going to be included in the nativity plays and to keep him at home for the 2 days as he will get nothing from it and won’t conform and other parents will be there.
today they have phoned her to say that they can no longer have him in the afternoons and can only attend the morning.

his only been at school 11 weeks and she is beside her self not understanding what’s going wrong.
when she asks they say his too far behind the curriculum and doesn’t focus.
they talk about him like he 100 percent had autism - she doesn’t mind of course if he does but she is worried that they have come to this conclusion too fast without giving him a chance to settle.

Not necessarily
starting the cycle again does not mean that they will get a deferred entry and it can be very counterproductive if the child is on a specialist pathway

disgusting behaviour from the school - sounds like the majority of 4 year olds!

Two options spring to mind:

a) move him and hope the next setting is better and won’t illegally exclude him or

b) dreadful as they sound, be glad they’ve picked up on autism being a possibility and enlist their support in starting the EHCNA process (your friend can also do this herself as a parent but will need to gather evidence). If they try and fob her off, persist.

In any case, she needs to get EVERYTHING in writing for the record. Save any emails, follow up any conversations with an email (“on X date you stated X… if I don’t hear otherwise I will take this as an accurate representation of our conversation about George”, etc.)

Once they know she’s onto them and is collecting evidence they’ll probably get their act together pretty quickly. Also, it may be possible he’s autistic but as pp have said, schools can’t diagnose autism.

Lastly, has your friend done her research on autism? It’s very possible for a child to have all the lovely traits you describe and still be autistic. Sometimes it becomes more obvious when there’s been a change of setting (we autistic people tend not to like change!)

This sounds very concerning to me. If his needs are so complex that they are seemingly unable to meet them then they should be getting external professionals in asap. Alternatively it could be that he needs some additional support and differentiation to make the learning environment accessible to him but instead they are choosing to exclude him which will only push him further behind. A meeting with the senco would be very beneficial I think.

Firstly they are excluding him- there are specific steps for this which do not appear to be being followed. Also if autism is being queried Disability Discrimination could be considered. By the way Autism cannot be diagnosed by a teacher - what evidence do they have?
He's not where they need him to be? What does this mean exactly? What do they expect from him?
He is just 4years old. Some children in that class will be nearly 5, a huge difference in terms of perfectly normal development. Schools seem to be lacking basic knowledge of child development and are too much concerned with their stats rather than understanding individual children

I have a child with fairly severe Sen who is currently in mainstream school. Potentially your friend should take the reports on her DS seriously but the school sound like they have acted terribly. Your friend should arrange a meeting with the senco and head asap. They should be giving a lot more detail of the issues they are having with him.
My DD’s school wanted her to come home at lunch times every day at one point but we were able to discuss and come up with some reasonable adjustments for her to be there all day. It’s completely unfair for them to just state he can’t be there for half the day especially with barely any explanation.
If it were me I’d be looking around at other schools, this one doesn’t sound like they will be able to support him, whatever the needs are.
There are actually some schools out there who will go over and above for children who have Sen or potentially could just be struggling at school. School shouldn’t be making any diagnoses either, it’s not for them to decide and they do not have that expertise.

Gosh…

well firstly I would be refusing reduced timetable -

Ask for a meeting - reception is learning through play so I am concerned how much sitting he needs to do .

They absolutely won’t have enough evidence for an Echp - however in order for an echp there needs to show they have put support in place and his needs can’t be met .

I don’t even understand why he won’t benefit - even if he does have autism ( they can’t diagnose) doesn’t mean they don’t benefit .

I would ask for a meeting and ask what support they are putting in place.. Ask how they are applying inclusivity.

I wouldn’t dismiss moving him either at this point he is entitled to an education .

They sound absolutely dreadful but I suspect they are not making up the issues. I’d be looking at getting him diagnosed and then find a supportive school. All schools are not equal. It is entirely down to the combination of leadership and individual staff members. Best off getting feedback locally from parents in similar situations and I suggest canvassing a range of opinions because not all parental experiences are the same either.

This. Lots of schools - out of desperation, mostly - are doing this "reduced timetable" thing to keep SEN students out of the way as much as possible. It's presented to parents as not only legal but something they have no right to challenge. It's outrageous, it's illegal and you do not have to agree to it. This child is entitled to a full time state education. It happens because schools are underfunded and don't have sufficient support staff, but it's not the individual SEN student's responsibility to solve it, nor is it the parents'. Schools know they are breaking the law. They just think you don't know.

It baffles me that any state school doesn't have enough experience of kids who start school somewhat bouncy and immature, whether that is indicative of lifelong SN and SEN or not, to have an armoury of strategies to help them settle in and cope with the routine rather than just managing them out the first chance they get.

Reception class should still be offering a balance of structured activity and free play, anyhow and have the staffing to manage a range of needs.

Or maybe, just maybe, the child isn’t coping, the school isn’t coping, the rest of the class is suffering disruption and the child would benefit from a reduced timetable…

Putting a child on a reduced timetable to benefit the school/others is unlawful

Putting a child on a part time table before you've exhausted every single other option is unlawful

Excluding (formally) a send child before attempting everything possible to meet their needs them is unlawful

Excluding (informally) is unlawful

Lots and lots of parents defer summer born children so they start reception the year after. It's a very good idea. Four is very young for the requirements of school.

People always say this on here, in RL the only people i know who've deferred had children who were noticeably behind who later were diagnosed with some sort of sen.

Reception is all play based.

My late august DC was absolutely fine. The vast majority of children are fine within their age cohort at school.

I think your friend needs professional advice, quickly. The school are acting in an appalling manner. They are excluding him - they will argue they are not because they are doing so unlawfully and banking on her not knowing her son’s rights. To say he shouldn’t attend for the two days of the nativity yet also say he doesn’t need an EHCNA? Appalling. They are trying to push him out. And frankly I’d let them because the chance of this school having a change of heart and being supportive is nil. I’d want my child in a school which wants to help him. Yes, I know school budgets and staffing are stretched, but there is a vast difference between how they handle it and some just don’t want SEN kids making life harder for them.

I would recommend she talk to SENDIASS (search for it plus her area). Seek advice from other SEN parents in her area, if she doesn’t know any then there’ll be a Facebook group. If she can pay, consider a Sunshine Support advocate.

It is possible, but not easy or guaranteed, to pull out a summer born child at this stage and start them in reception again. “Flexible school admissions for summer Borns” is a Facebook group with really experienced parents who can advise how to apply.

Schools should support and apply for EHCP on basis of need, not diagnosis. Alongside this should sit a referral to a diagnostic service.

She needs to demand an email. When they’re talking on the phone, she needs to say to them that she wants it all in writing. Over and over again. She needs to be firm and insist. They can’t illegally exclude a child from school. Tell her to literally reply to everything they say on the phone that she needs it in writing. Even if she feels really awkward.

She needs to move him to a better school.

my DS (5) is also a summer baby- late June- and on the autism pathway. He is incredibly academically competent, and in most areas is ahead of the curriculum- but struggles socially, which impacts how he accesses the classroom.

He really struggled at his preschool (he was in with the reception class) but we moved him to a different school for reception and the difference in him was amazing.

This first term the staff should be making the effort to get to know your friend’s son. It is far too early for them to be writing him off like this. If her son is anything like mine, getting an accurate picture during assessment is near impossible if they haven’t first built a bond and worked out how to engage/motivate them.

It takes time to understand any child, but one who is potentially on the spectrum, can often take more ‘work’ to bond with. It’s easy to not see past the mask that they often put up. If they’re so quick to pass him off to others (moving him down to nursery/reducing timetable) and excluding him from activities, I’m not sure they’re people I would trust to care for him.

Had she been in touch with the nursery to ask if they'd had any concerns about him?

@Peopleinmyphone
@CourageTrouble what you tell your friend to do is everytime she takes a call she sends an email recapping. Further to your call...
The exclusion is enough evidence. A reduced timetable is also only to be used when there is a clear plan and only for a limited time.

The school shouldn't be diagnosing anything or implementing strategies such as reduced timetables without the involvement of a specialist.

What really stood out to me is that they want him removed from the Nativity play " because other parents will be there". That really does not sound very inclusive to me. I agree with what many posters have said about him being illegally excluded.

I struggle to believe that his previous nursery raised zero concerns yet school seem so concerned they are dramatically reducing his timetable!?

Sounds like school need to have a meeting with your friend and actually go through in detail what they feel the issues are and how they can meet his needs.

fobbing them off with a reduced timetable is not overly helpful.

The school should have the boy logged on the additional needs register and should be developing a plan to support him. That may include a number of different strategies- fidget toy, visual timetable, wobble cushion, time out for respite, suitably differentiated tasks.

It is possible to have a very short term reduced timetable, but it must be tightly planned and time bonded and not be open ended. Probably no more than one or two weeks. What they’re currently planning is, as has been said, an illegal exclusion.

There is no reason why a parent can’t apply for a needs assessment, EHCNA, that may or may not ultimately lead to an EHCP. It’s early in the school year, so there may not be the evidence to support an application at this stage, especially as there were no reported issues in nursery and the school appears to be dealing with this by putting it back to the parent.

I think your friend should consider several options

Ask for a meeting with the class teacher and head teacher, in which both parties can explain what the issues are, on both sides. Follow that up with an email, detailing what was discussed and what the outcomes would be and how they will be measured.

If they insist on a reduced timetable contact the governors and the local authority and express concern that these are illegal exclusions

Contact SEN organisations as has been mentioned and ask their advice.

Investigate whether there are any local schools with places who may be more in tune and sympathetic to the child’s needs.

Can she ask to observe? He’s literally only JUST 4! How long are they expecting him to sit still for?? Good grief, I feel really sorry for your friend. And the school are behaving appallingly. If there’s enough evidence to send him home (extremely unlikely from your description imo) there’s enough evidence for an ehcp (possible, but oh wait, the school would have to provide part the funding…)

She is really struggling emotionally, her youngest has been diagnosed with a life threatening disease which requires a lot of nursing care. They got out of hospital after 7 months a little while ago and she has had to adapt to those care needs then all this the past 11 weeks

She can but why should she ?

The school can't diagnose anything theu can flag up up concerns
She needs a meeting with the SENCO to find out what's going on are they going to apply for an EHCP etc .