To ask if people today don’t agree with ivf?!

[Yaerry]

or am I just naive? Watched the new documentary about Jean Purdy and I’m surprised there was so much push back at the time. It’s made me wonder if one day surrogacy will be more accepted? I thought ivf was just a standard thing now that wasn’t controversial.

I had three embryos frozen after my successful round. I have used up two of them (miscarriage and then my son) and hopefully using the last one. Many people are similar that there won't be many embryos destroyed because having any to freeze is very lucky.

When I was struggling with infertility (9 years of unprotected sex but 20 months of proper ttc), I told myself that children were nice to have at the end because I thought it was a good way of protecting my mental health as it wasnt something within my control. I told myself that my flat was too small for a kid and we would have so many nice holidays without a baby. But now I am pregnant I am happily rearranging the furniture and visiting daycares and buying baby clothes (foetus is 6 weeks old!)

This exactly. I obviously wouldn’t be detached if I actually had a child (a very one-upper comment from another poster). But it’s healthy to stay detached from people who might never exist. If I don’t have children then there will be space in my life for other things. If someone has children or doesn’t have children; there’s always the road less travelled!

@Feliciacat If you have never carved being pregnant or having a baby then no wonder you don't feel the same way if the IVF fails unlike women who desperately want it. Kind of obvious isn't it?

Conversely, the most insensitive comments about infertility I’ve had are from people who’ve overcome theirs and managed to have their baby. I would celebrate their joy and happiness, never let my own feelings impact upon their lovely news. Yet, the worst comments and actions have come from those who have quickly forgotten what’s it’s like! In some ways, it is worse than the pain of being infertile. I live with it and make the best out of my life and then WHAM mother of baby (who was once in my shoes!) manages to screw my head up for a brief while.

Craved not carved.

I totally agree with your views. I saw something about this documentary and they said 10 million babies have been born by IVF. Ridiculous. Especially with the way the world’s population has grown spectacularly in the last 40 odd years. I am very against it being available on thE NHS too. The NHS isn’t for wants.

Surrogacy makes my blood boil so I better not express my views.

I am childfree by choice btw. (Edited to add)

I don’t get this whole “let nature decide” nonsense.

If you’re 100% nature, off the grid living, grow your own veg type than fair enough.

But if you’re not and you accept that science and innovation is a WONDERFUL aspect of our lives (without science and innovation we’d still have droves of maternal and infant and child deaths) - and you’re happy for you and your loved ones to reap the benefits of that - such as take medicine, have surgery under anaesthetic, take antidepressants, receive chemotherapy etc - then to be anti IVF in the name of nature makes you a hypocritical half wit. Because all it is is growing a baby naturally but taking a bit of a detour. Like literally every healthcare choices

Either the anti-IVF brigade are just a bit thick and mean, OR…they see, either consciously or unconsciously people (well let’s face it women) who can’t conceive to be a failure, and their brain is telling them failures don’t deserve what they, success, have. I don’t think that of course I’m just offering how I see the hard-of-thinking view IVF.

And BTW I have no skin in the game, my 2 both came along on the first try but I’m not an arsehole and can only imagine the pain of not being able to conceive naturally.

This is an American site with some pretty awful surrogacy and egg donation stories. For those who had no idea there were any issues.

https://www.legalizesurrogacywhynot.com/stories
And some info on the Law Commission's plans to make surrogacy easier (for the purchasers) in the UK:

https://nordicmodelnow.org/category/surrogacy/

Edited to add link

Yes, equally painful. 💐

I'm against IVF in principle because I think infertility is nature's way of controlling population increase and shouldn't be messed with just because we can and global population increase is out of control

I hope if your child or loved one is on life support you ensure you switch it off. After all isn’t your people dying natures way of controlling population increase and you shouldn’t mess with it??

It us a group with a political agenda.

www.legalizesurrogacywhynot.com/who-we-are

Was your friend told she was donor conceived as soon as she could begin to start to understand (likely as a toddler) and does she know who her donor is/is she able to contact them?

I think some of the people against donor conception on Mumsnet don’t understand that things have greatly moved on in the UK in the last couple of decades. It is now standard practice/strongly advised by mandatory counselling in clinics here to tell your child asap that they are donor conceived (so it’s never a shock for them), and also mandatory in a clinic in the UK to have a non anonymous donor too - with the hope/expectation to have some level of contact with the donor once DC is an adult (or earlier with online help) if that is what the DC wants.

I haven’t heard of any donor conceived people in that situation having any issues with their conception (and I did a lot of research before having my DC with IVF using donor sperm in a clinic here). Personally I’m in touch online with my DC’s sperm donor already - I think a lot of donors are happier to be in contact than they were in the past as there has been lots of research into the benefits of contact/or more information for the DC, and donors know they have no chance of anonymity now.

In terms of the general thread, obviously I am in favour in principle for well informed donor conception and/or IVF - and I suspect many of the posters completely against it on here either haven’t done much research to the realities of it (in the UK currently) or have no experience of it themselves.

I have no experience of surrogacy myself so can’t be certain on that - only to say that I have read a lot of articles about commercial surrogacy that do seem paint a very bleak picture (as it does for ill informed, non altruistic egg donation too to be fair). I have no idea if the same is always the case for family/friend surrogacy or genuine, well informed, altruistic surrogacy (or egg donation) though. Unfortunately, like many of these things I suspect it is not a black/white picture and depends very much on the individuals involved - so I am glad we have strong regulation in the UK now for both donor conception and surrogacy compared to other countries.

A friend used donor eggs and her child is well but has some serious emoiotnal issues. Almost like you'd expect to see in an adopted child eg attachment disorder etc. so it's interesting to hear you say this. They wonder who the bio mother is and what may be inherited or what is the impact of the process.

Dont worry birth rates are falling everywhere. Even religious people are having fewer children..
12 million is hardly anything in the scheme of things when you consider the first ivf baby is 46 year old. Majority of ivf babies were probablu born in the rich world which has below replacement rates.

If you want to look at what happens to societies with low birth rates look at rural Italy where they don't even have young people to work in rubbish disposal so the bins are uncollected. I struggled with fertility and would have done ivf if I didn't fall pregnant after 9 years of unprotected sex. DH is getting a vasectomy (on the nhs probably and no one says that is a waste of nhs money, presumably men's health is more important than female health) so whether or not it's produced via ivf or not, we would have produced fewer children needed to replace us. In fact most ivf parents probably dont have more than 2 (it is invasive with a low success rate), nhs only funds the first child as far as I know (and this includes children from other marriages)..

Intrauterine insemination (IUI) I am fine with, esp where the sperm donor has consented to the specific insemination.

And consenting adoption is fine, with a grey area where there is a financial exchange from the couples unable to conceive.

But messing with embryos and stem cells is wrong and I believe leads to psychic trauma once when the conscious souls within those embryos reincarnate in future generations.

it needs to be internationally outlawed.

I see abortion as an individual choice- to be resolved through the soul contract between mother and unborn child.

Destroying embryos is soulless. There is no contract to play out - only trauma.

I know people who are against ivf because of the destruction of embryos as they believe life starts at conception. I do find it a bit morally dubious although feel great empathy for people struggling with infertility.

I can see an argument for removing ivf from the NHS. However, I mostly object to the postcode lottery whereby in some areas you get no rounds free and in others you get three rounds. I think if they offer it on the NHS it should be the same nr of rounds on offer for everywhere in the country.

Adoption is fine yet Embryos may lead to psychic trauma in reincarnated generations WTF?

Adoption leads to lots of trauma a surprising percentage of adoptions break down. Real actual trauma for both the children, Adoption parents and the extended families.

Maybe a huge part of the issue is adopted parents are handed a kid who first knew their of existence about a week earlier. And more or less expected to get on and parent them like a birth child.

Yes. It isn't that I necessarily disagree with the view altogether but it shouldn't be a lottery based on wealth. If we really agreed that it was not an ethical procedure, it should be banned. Not made private.

But messing with embryos and stem cells is wrong and I believe leads to psychic trauma once when the conscious souls within those embryos reincarnate in future generations.

Well, that's a different take... 😵‍💫🧐

This makes absolutely no sense. Please explain your logic.

It's quite depressing that people feel they can weigh in on something that as hugely emotive and significant to others and say 'oh no I think no children for you, better just get over it' based on either random vibes or plain misinformation. It seems that we really haven't moved on from the 70s!

There is so much misinformation on this thread.

I really hope that anyone considering IVF or donor conception does their own research as the vast majority of "information" on this thread is absolute rubbish.

Hell of a lot of pro lifers on this thread. If you don't like ivf, don't have it.

If you don't like the idea of donors, don't use one yourself.

Don't like surrogacy? Same.

Mind your own business?

I think many of these commenters are raising the issues/trauma it causes the children subsequently born from these methods.