To ask if people today don’t agree with ivf?!

[Yaerry]

or am I just naive? Watched the new documentary about Jean Purdy and I’m surprised there was so much push back at the time. It’s made me wonder if one day surrogacy will be more accepted? I thought ivf was just a standard thing now that wasn’t controversial.

So do you disagree with anything that doesn’t risk your life being treated on the NHS? Just to clarify?

so you think things that aren’t a death sentence shouldn’t be provided by public healthcare ? Gosh that really would massively reduce the bills of the nhs because many many many other things are not a death sentence and are treated publicly .

Yes Scotland actually follows the guidelines. For anyone in need of funding in England moving to Scotland is not an unreasonable consideration!

I do feel that by saying “IVF shouldn’t be available on the NHS” you are essentially claiming that only wealthy people deserve help with infertility and only children with wealthy parents will have a good life. Easy way to create a more divided society. feels a bit eugenic-y to me.

Where I live they removed all access to IVF and gave the county council a pay rise.

Haha no not at all, I think the NHS should follow the guidelines and treat infertility with the same respect it does other illnesses and provide 3 full rounds.
it shouldn’t make people feel second class for needing help

I say this as someone with endometriosis who recently finished a cycle of private ivf (using my eggs and my DH’s sperm), got pregnant but miscarried at six weeks. So I do know what it’s like to dearly want to be a parent and suffer from problems conceiving and carrying.

If I don’t ever become a Mum; I’ve still got myself, DH, my cats and all the friends, family and activities that I love. I have always been baffled as to why there isn’t more emphasis on appreciating yourself and your life for what they are! I’m trying everything I can to be a Mum but why isn’t being childless more acceptable?

@BellaSignoraa it is a disgrace

It's not fair. That's the point, isn't it.
The ease with which men are able to do some things, thereby allowing them to do anything easy for them, could be extended to anything and prohibit women who need modifications to the task or process in order to do same. Follow? So, should we chuck all feminist initiatives and accomplishments? No women police, firefighters, military? No women in trades, medicine, science? Maybe prohibit women workers totally since childcare usually falls to women so it is more difficult for them to work outside the home. Periods mean more time from work. It's easier for men. 🧐

Sorry I think I quoted the wrong person! I meant the person you were replying to 🙈

I’m not literally suggesting pregnant women are denied care. My point was fertile women are never made to feel guilt about the family size they want despite the cost to the NHS. No one ever suggests someone stop at one or two because the money on the next birth would be better spent funding cancer instead. Yet IVF is vilified for the cost.

To be fair for many women it is a big deal and is heartbreaking.

All I ever wanted was to be a mom. I worked with kids until I had my own.

Infertility and pregnancy losses were heartbreaking.

I adopted which in many ways was a far more exhausting process and I didn't do IVF but it's silly to say it's not a big deal.

Stress levels for women experiencing infertility have been compared to women experiencing terminal illness in studies. Which is NOT to say they are the same thing.

I watched a friend go through IVF in her 30's and then 12 years later died of terminal cancer at 42.

Both were heartbreaking for her. She was so thankful though that she was able to have her beautiful daughter. She was amazing and definitely meant to be a mom. 💖

But what would be the point? You can't stop people from conceiving naturally unless you want to veer into fascist territory, and once they do, providing care isn't optional. Your point is a blind alley.

The fact is that IVF doesn't save lives in the way that maternity and neonatal care does. Personally I think fertility treatment should be available on the NHS, but I think the NHS should be drastically better funded and its remit expanded in any case; I don't think we should be paying for dental or eye care at the point of delivery either, and mental and physical healthcare should be properly integrated (IVF touches both, imo, and is generally a net positive for society). I just don't think that lashing out at fertile women and drawing spurious parallels helps anyone.

Not sure you realise the impact of infertility on mental health. Not being able to have a child is life altering and has an immeasurable impact on mental health. A life long impact infact.

I’d never presume to preach about NHS funds and IVF when I’m in the privileged position of having two children of my own, both of whom we were able to conceive naturally. I am thankful for them every day and I’d never try to take that away from somebody else by outlawing IVF funding on the NHS.

But surrogacy? No. This is too parent-centric for me and doesn’t favour the rights of the poor child stuck in the middle of it. An individual’s right to have a baby simply does not trump the rights of the child.

Incidentally, the idea of donating my eggs/embryos blows my mind. How can you have a biological child just out there in the world and never get to know them or anything?! An embryo would surely be a full biological sibling of any existing child you had as a couple.

baffling.

Endometriosis is the leading cause of infertility in women and most of us have required several surgeries due to it.

One thing I do find interesting here, is that doctors aren't allowed to mention health risks of being overweight for fear of being accused of fat shaming but IVF is an issue.

I imagine a lot more money is spent on obesity related health issues than IVF, despite the fact infertility isn't in someone's control versus most weight issues.

@Feliciacat

I have always been baffled as to why there isn’t more emphasis on appreciating yourself and your life for what they are! I’m trying everything I can to be a Mum but why isn’t being childless more acceptable?

So why not stop trying to have a child? Why not adopt?
Why not give up and focus on your child-free life?

Because you desperately want a child. You want to be pregnant, carry a child and give birth. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that either.

This is interesting though because are you against using the coil? With the coil embryos can be fertilised and form in the womb every month - they're just prevented from implanting so they die, similar to discarded IVF embryos

Yet the coil is considered a form of contraception, not an abortion, so I'm not sure discarded embryos can be considered an abortion either

My DH can have a healthy life without a vasectomy. But yet he is going for one on the nhs after our child is born.. it's so that I don't need to be on the iud or implant or pills which I never needed to use for years due to my fertility issues. Which are all funded by the nhs incidentally.

None of this is life threatening.

This is incorrect

But lots of women never manage to have a baby in spite of going through loads of IVF but they manage to come to terms with it and live happy fulfilling lives. I’m not sure it helps people with fertility issues to portray not having a child as something that you never ever get over.

My daughter is a product of my one round of NHS funded IVF due to unexplained infertility. I feel very very lucky to be given that chance to be a mum. She’s my little miracle.

But for some people that’s exactly what it is? And their pain shouldn’t be minimised because they can get some hobbies or a pet.

@Cantalever see my comment above - viable embryos die in the same way when women are on the coil. Egg and sperm fertilise, but embryo isn't given the opportunity to implant, similar to discarded IVF embryos - yet no one has the same outrage about people going on the coil

I’m not minimising that pain, I went through 10 years of IVF without success. What I am saying is that there is never a guarantee of a baby. And that’s something many women have to face.