To hit the roof with SIL?

[Getonwitit]

Lovely lovely BIL (DH brother) came to us in the summer in bits after his wife ran up huge debts and asked if we could cover his children's school fees, niece in her last year and nephew second last year. We agreed on the condition his wife stopped spending and got off her backside and finally got her first ever job.
I know i sound harsh but she is a chancer that got lucky. My poor BIL works his backside of to give her what she never grew up with and she takes him for everything.
BIL was 29 when he met her at a Young Farmers NYE bash. She had turned uninvited with a couple of girl friends and will happily tell you she was on the hunt for a rich farmers son. Although not a farmers son she made a play for my virgin BIL, they had sex that night and 3 weeks later tracked him down to say she was pregnant, at her insistence they married 2 months later as she didn't want to "show" in the wedding photo's. The family were devastated but supported their son. Seven months later she had a very healthy 9lb Daughter and within 7 weeks of having this "prem" baby she was pregnant again. The baby boy was on time and is the double of his dad who absolutely adored his children Eventually she confessed ( when drunk) what everyone knew, the little girl wasn't his. He was devastated but couldn't end the marriage and choose to raise the little girl as his daughter.
Fast forward to now and she has never worked and has been very generous at buying friends ( Jo Malone candles and Champagne birthday lunches) She can't keep friends at all.
She asked for a new kitchen whilst BIL was working overseas on a 12 month contract, he agreed a budget and she spent a fortune( 58K) the budget was nowhere near that, all went on credit cards.
What is making me rage is that the conditions of the loan is she works and doesn't spend unless it's urgent as she needs to pay us back within 5 years. What has sent me mad today is that my BIL is O/S working his arse off and i have just been sent a screen shot of her Insta account, she and 2 new friends are in Europe for a Christmas Market and Spa trip. I am furious, i want to wring her bloody neck. Why should i pay for her whilst she owes me so much money.
What do i do? refuse to pay the next installment of the school fees ( i really don't want to do that) or should i tell my BIL but really don't want to upset him. What would you do ? Would i be unreasonable to insist she gets an evening job as well as the part time one she has during the day ?

You have a repayment plan and they have made the first instalment

they are paying you back

You’ve done a good thing by paying the school fees and enabling niece and nephew to finish school in the school where they are settled.
I can understand why SILs spending is making you mad, but if they pay you back within the 5 years I don’t think you can question what else they spend their money on. They obviously have a different attitude to you on money - it sounds like you would be the type of person to not spend anything until it’s paid back but they don’t see money like that - they see it as some thing to be spent.

He made the first instalment in the 1st November
and “ I know he will make all the instalments “

I think you need to take a step back and not worry about what she does

You expect a woman in her 40s who has never worked a day in her life to get a job that pays enough to pay back a huge loan within 5 years? That's funny. If you loaned your BIL the money then it is your BIL's responsibility to pay you back. She is his problem, not yours.

But tbh I'm finding it hard to believe a woman in her mid-60s would be stupid enough to lend money in these circumstances.

I'd be inclined to comment "why am I paying your kids school fees while you're swanning off on holiday"

But then I wouldn't humiliate the kids.
I'd tell her why and go no contact with her. She wouldn't be welcome in my home. Be here for kids and bil but fuck her off

Because this post is fabricated nonsense. This situation isn’t happening and the people in the OP’s head don’t exist.

Obviously it’s not my business but I just can’t shake off the fact that you’ve lent two incredibly irresponsible, financially unstable people your dad’s inheritance. Dress it up however you like BIL is not a victim but a wilful participant to this madness who has absolutely enabled her and continues to do so to your disadvantage. He is not remotely responsible or secure if he has no idea what’s going on financially in his marriage, that’s just purposeful ignorance on his part. Stop making a martyr of a grown adult and realise that in this situation they’re both as bad as each other and taking full advantage of you.

If one of my children gave money I’d worked my entire life for and left for inheritance to two wastrels who are clearly borderline insolvent I’d be heartbroken. How careless and quite frankly irresponsible of you to do so.

You know full well there is a huge risk in lending them money and that there will likely come a time where they can’t pay it back. You can’t start whinging now, this is entirely of your own making. You also can’t demand that she doesn’t put any money on credit cards, the definition of “unnecessary spending” is an enormously grey area at best and isn’t enforcable.

This may have been your “terms” but you were fully appraised of all of the facts and their circumstances before you lent them money. What you’ve done is literally the definition of irresponsible lending. That’s like giving an addict a fix and expecting there not be repercussions. She very obviously has a serious shopping addiction that is spiralling out of control.

I hope for your sake the terms of your repayment is completely legally blinding and has been overseen by a solicitor.

It's hard to believe you thought you were going to get the money back, when lending money you should expect to lose it. What a bloody mess. And maybe it's time to expect your BIL to take some responsibility - he's a grown man, it's time you all stopped treating him like he's intellectually challenged.

Just wanted to say op that I think you’ve had a hard time on here with people calling you a mug etc.

It was a wonderful thing you did to stop your DNs having to move school at that age.

You have a legal agreement so I can’t see why you have done anything “ stupid”. You were kind.

Just now insist on getting repaid asap. I’d avoid raising the SIL’s behsviour directly but just exert pressure via a repayment plan. It will have its own disciplinary effect on her spending if you push hard enough.

As an aside, these “ marry into money” types sometimes, I think, genuinely have no concept of finances. They just have a blurry concept of “ rich” and can’t comprehend that is a dynamic status not some kind of species. To them it’s like trying to convince them an elephant is no longer an elephant. “ if yer rich, yer rich.” There must be more money…

LIZS
Clearly you have never liked or trusted her. She does have a job though, if only pt. If he earns well abroad why can he not cover the expenses? Is it a loan or a gift?

Because this post is fabricated nonsense. This situation isn’t happening and the people in the OP’s head don’t exist.

Exactly this. ⬆️ ⬆️⬆️

The thing about lending money to profligate relatives is where does it stop? In their heads your inheritance is theirs to spend. Your first mistake was telling them about it!

You’ve paid money for this term but what about spring and summer terms? Ok so eldest child will finish school next summer but if you say “no more” then the younger one will have to change schools with one year to go. If the eldest wants to go to university then you can bet BIL and SIL haven’t put by money for that either, or for driving lessons, or for a car, or for weddings or for help with a rental deposit etc, etc…it goes on and on. Then another relative gets to hear you’ve been bailing them out and they want their “turn” as well.

Before anything else, he needs to cut up her credit cards.
I used to know someone, a high earner but wildly extravagant, whose bank manager cut all hers up in front of her!

???

I’m not actually convinced this entire thing is made up, but on the off chance the OP is legit…

The BIL has agency in all his decisions. He’s just made shit choices - I won’t list them, they’re too long. It’s his bed, he made it, best he enjoys lying in it.

The OP has choices to. She made a choice to make a loan for her niece and nephews sake. Own that decision and it’s consequences.

for the love of god, I sometimes despair.

Bil, like a lot of people has got himself into an emotionally and financially very abusive relationship. He needs support to end it and get a divorce or the situation will only get worse. You have been amazingly supportive to him and the children by making sure their education doesn’t suffer. She won’t pay you back. Time to cut ties and end the marriage for all your sakes.

It's not your responsibility, but if you feel inclined to continue funding their education, I wouldn't stop simply to give the mother a consequence.

I think you would have to look at it as an investment in the kid's future but lost funds for yourself, because it doesn't sound like you'd be getting the money back. It would have to be something you could do very comfortably financially and emotionally, without any expectations of repayment or even a lot of gratitude probably.

It's a really shitty situation and the mother sounds like an absolute nightmare, so any stable influence you can supply them, be it their education or just having a safe adult in their life to talk to, would probably really benefit them.

If their education was something you had to stretch to accommodate and would definitely need repayment for, then you might need to reconsider continuing as this seems like it will become a major issue down the line when your brother-in-law is on the hook for the money and his wife is spending everything.

Nailed it!

I don’t think that paying for someone else’s children to have a private education when state schools are perfectly adequate, is a sign of sensible fiscal management, so you’re no better than your SIL in that sense. 🤷🏻‍♀️

BIL agreed to buy a kitchen rather than pay for the private school fees - is that correct? No matter that sil spent more than agreed - they had financial obligations and they both chose the kitchen. The legal status of your loan is irrelevant - you'd have to take them to court and get the bailiffs around to enforce that agreement - it's unlikely you'd go that far. You really have been suckered in here.

No apostrophe needed in fees.

And I agree with previous posters, the children should have left the private school the minute the BIL found out about the debt. My parents had to do the same when I was 14 and my older brother 15...it wasn't great, but they had zero choice as they had no relatives willing to cover the fees. We survived.

You remind me of my narc mother, she blames everything my older brother does that she doesn't like on my SIL. I've told her many times that my brother isn't some weak pussy whipped idiot, he's perfectly capable of standing up for himself. My mother just doesn't like the fact that he's living his life the way he wants to, not how she thinks he should be.

You talk about your BIL as if he is a vulnerable adult with significant cognitive and emotional difficulties. If this is the case then you need legal advice on guardianship for his protection. If it is not the case, as I suspect it is not, you need to stop infantilising him and treat him as the adult that he is. If he has full mental capacity then he is accountable for the consequences of his choices.

I think you're doing a lovely thing but paying your niece and nephew's school fees out of your inheritance is INSANE. Unless you're absolutely minted, and can easily spare £20K a year (it's about that to send ONE kid to private school round here), what are you doing?! What about your own kids? Don't you want them to enjoy some of that inheritance? The decision to send kids to private school is for your BIL and SIL to make (and pay for) and has absolutely nothing to do with you. I suspect from what you say (and knowing the type) that your SIL is milking you and you won't see that money again. Step back and let them sort themselves out - and as others have said, be prepared for the sob story and for SIL to up the emotional blackmail to squeeze more cash out of you.

I doubt the OP will return after her last post but WTAF?

I agreed to pay the school fee's as i didn't want the children to suffer.

So all the children in state schools are suffering? None of them have ever managed to go to Oxbridge?

Its difficult as you are all enabling her behaviour and then complaining about it 🤷‍♀️

You can't make her do anything apart from pursue repayment of the loans - if she's profligate and/or lazy you can't change that, no matter how much better she should be doing. All you can do is decide if you're willing to keep paying their kids' school fees out of charity or not - which will depend on how much you have left to pay and how much you can afford. Luckily the stakes aren't that high - it'll be annoying for your nephew to have to change schools, but we're not talking life or death here, plenty of people survive it. Equally the money may not be the point for you, in which case take comfort in being the responsible one who can help these kids and perhaps the kids will learn from you what they didn't learn from their parents about money management and healthy relationships.